Author Topic: What Input Bearing Retainer for AAR 4-Speed Trans?  (Read 2064 times)

Offline cwestra

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1120
What Input Bearing Retainer for AAR 4-Speed Trans?
« on: July 26, 2012 - 04:24:27 PM »
Can anyone tell me which front bearing retainer was used on the A-833 for 1970 T/A or AAR 340 6-Barrel?  There are a couple available (5.125" dia., 4.80 dia., and 4.35" dia.).  The 5.125" appears to be for 1975 and newer overdrive.  The 4.80" dia. seems to be for the 18 spline Hemi but used on other engines besides Hemi's.  Odds are I have the 4.35" dia. but I am not sure if they did something different for the AAR or T/A.
Corey - in Northern Indiana




Offline 7071 challenger

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 215
  • All you need is Dodge!
Re: What Input Bearing Retainer for AAR 4-Speed Trans?
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2012 - 08:53:16 AM »
Can anyone tell me which front bearing retainer was used on the A-833 for 1970 T/A or AAR 340 6-Barrel?  There are a couple available (5.125" dia., 4.80 dia., and 4.35" dia.).  The 5.125" appears to be for 1975 and newer overdrive.  The 4.80" dia. seems to be for the 18 spline Hemi but used on other engines besides Hemi's.  Odds are I have the 4.35" dia. but I am not sure if they did something different for the AAR or T/A.
While I am no expert with manual transmissions, to my knowledge, the smaller retainer, (4.35), is when you have the smaller 307 bearing up front in your transmission. I don' t think AARs & TAs were built with the small bearing, (307=small, 308=large). And I agree with you, the very large retainer, (5.125), is for newer overdrive transmissions. My transmission is a 23 spline with the 4.80 retainer. And I've seen a couple 23 splines with the 4.80 retainer. There is a couple of parts that will interchange. For exemple, if you have a newer bellhousing for an overdrive transmission, you can use that and put the large 5.125 retainer on your front bearing and it will work fine. Measure your hole in your bellhousing and find the retainer that matches. Why are you asking? Any problems?

Robert

Offline cwestra

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1120
Re: What Input Bearing Retainer for AAR 4-Speed Trans?
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2012 - 11:44:47 AM »
While I am no expert with manual transmissions, to my knowledge, the smaller retainer, (4.35), is when you have the smaller 307 bearing up front in your transmission. I don' t think AARs & TAs were built with the small bearing, (307=small, 308=large). And I agree with you, the very large retainer, (5.125), is for newer overdrive transmissions. My transmission is a 23 spline with the 4.80 retainer. And I've seen a couple 23 splines with the 4.80 retainer. There is a couple of parts that will interchange. For exemple, if you have a newer bellhousing for an overdrive transmission, you can use that and put the large 5.125 retainer on your front bearing and it will work fine. Measure your hole in your bellhousing and find the retainer that matches. Why are you asking? Any problems?

Robert
Thanks.  I will be dropping the trans next week to try (again) to figure out why I am picking up a wicked vibration at around 65 mph.  When I installed the trans a few years ago (when the restoration was complete) I had the wrong snap ring in at the front bearing and the cover did not seat.  It did not crack and I replaced the snap ring with the correct (smaller) one, but not sure if I somehow damaged it in the process to a point where it may be causing the vibration. 

The funny thing about this vibration is that I can make it go away (sometimes) by pushing in the clutch and letting it out slowly at vehicle speeds around 65 to 80.  I've gone through several possible causes including pilot bearing and rear differential.  I've even looked at things that weren't consistent with the intermittent characteristic like flywheen balance, driveshaft balance, harmonic balancer.  The problem seems to be a function of tranmission speed, since at vehicle speeds between 65 and 80 with the clutch pedal pushed in I can feel the vibration hard on the pedal (engine essentially idling at that point).  It's been a real mistery but one that I really want to solve before I head to the Nationals in a couple weeks.  We'll see.

Any thoughts would certainly be greatly appreciated.
Corey - in Northern Indiana

Offline 7071 challenger

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 215
  • All you need is Dodge!
Re: What Input Bearing Retainer for AAR 4-Speed Trans?
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2012 - 12:13:26 PM »
Thanks.  I will be dropping the trans next week to try (again) to figure out why I am picking up a wicked vibration at around 65 mph.  When I installed the trans a few years ago (when the restoration was complete) I had the wrong snap ring in at the front bearing and the cover did not seat.  It did not crack and I replaced the snap ring with the correct (smaller) one, but not sure if I somehow damaged it in the process to a point where it may be causing the vibration. 

The funny thing about this vibration is that I can make it go away (sometimes) by pushing in the clutch and letting it out slowly at vehicle speeds around 65 to 80.  I've gone through several possible causes including pilot bearing and rear differential.  I've even looked at things that weren't consistent with the intermittent characteristic like flywheen balance, driveshaft balance, harmonic balancer.  The problem seems to be a function of tranmission speed, since at vehicle speeds between 65 and 80 with the clutch pedal pushed in I can feel the vibration hard on the pedal (engine essentially idling at that point).  It's been a real mistery but one that I really want to solve before I head to the Nationals in a couple weeks.  We'll see.

Any thoughts would certainly be greatly appreciated.
The way you describe your problem, I think you can eliminate the engine. Yes, the problem can come from your transmission, but it can be something else. Did you replace the transmission tail bushing that supports the propeller shaft yoke?  It not, it might cause the vibration. The propeller shaft itself, (or U-joints), can cause this, differential can cause a vibration and the tires as well. One thing you have to make shure is the angle of your differential yoke is right, as well as the transmission angle. You can correct the angle of the diff angle by adding/removing shims between the leafs springs and the differential housing.  If they are not right, (one or the other), it will vibrate. Tou can get shims in any shop the repairs leaf springs. Make shure your engine/transmission mounts are in good shape. Again, I am no expert and I' m not shure how to measure the angle of the drive train. Chryco phsyco should know better.

Robert

Offline cwestra

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1120
Re: What Input Bearing Retainer for AAR 4-Speed Trans?
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2012 - 12:36:28 PM »
The way you describe your problem, I think you can eliminate the engine. Yes, the problem can come from your transmission, but it can be something else. Did you replace the transmission tail bushing that supports the propeller shaft yoke?  It not, it might cause the vibration. The propeller shaft itself, (or U-joints), can cause this, differential can cause a vibration and the tires as well. One thing you have to make shure is the angle of your differential yoke is right, as well as the transmission angle. You can correct the angle of the diff angle by adding/removing shims between the leafs springs and the differential housing.  If they are not right, (one or the other), it will vibrate. Tou can get shims in any shop the repairs leaf springs. Make shure your engine/transmission mounts are in good shape. Again, I am no expert and I' m not shure how to measure the angle of the drive train. Chryco phsyco should know better.

Robert
Thanks, Robert.  Yes, the problem appears to be within the tranmission and possibly clutch disc.  Engine, flywheel, pressure plate, driveshaft, rear gear, axles have been eliminated as possible cause.  That's interesting that you mention the area around the slip yoke though, as this was one of the last areas I had not yet eliminated.  The other day I did grab the front U-joint and moved it up and down to see if there was any play.  There was, but not sure how much is allowable.  I did replace the bushing in the tail shaft during the rebuild.  The drive shaft angle is also interesting.  The AAR's do have higher arch springs in them that would tend to change the angle between the tranmission shaft axis and driveshaft axis, but shimming it would only increase that angle.

The fact that the problem can be made to go away by depressing the clutch and releasing slowly means that something is moving or shifting somewhere.  So things like unbalanced drive shaft should be able to be eliminated. 
Corey - in Northern Indiana

Offline 7071 challenger

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 215
  • All you need is Dodge!
Re: What Input Bearing Retainer for AAR 4-Speed Trans?
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2012 - 06:06:54 PM »
Thanks, Robert.  Yes, the problem appears to be within the tranmission and possibly clutch disc.  Engine, flywheel, pressure plate, driveshaft, rear gear, axles have been eliminated as possible cause.  That's interesting that you mention the area around the slip yoke though, as this was one of the last areas I had not yet eliminated.  The other day I did grab the front U-joint and moved it up and down to see if there was any play.  There was, but not sure how much is allowable.  I did replace the bushing in the tail shaft during the rebuild.  The drive shaft angle is also interesting.  The AAR's do have higher arch springs in them that would tend to change the angle between the tranmission shaft axis and driveshaft axis, but shimming it would only increase that angle.

The fact that the problem can be made to go away by depressing the clutch and releasing slowly means that something is moving or shifting somewhere.  So things like unbalanced drive shaft should be able to be eliminated.
Just to mention that, these shims are not square. They are taper, so you can move your pinion up or down, and they have degrees written on them, like 1*, 1-1/2*, 2*, 2-1/2*, ect...  Here is a pic of a shim installed, so you'll understand better.

Robert

Offline Chryco Psycho

  • Administrator
  • C-C.com Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 36620
  • 70 Challenger R/T SE 70 tube Chassis Cuda now sold
Re: What Input Bearing Retainer for AAR 4-Speed Trans?
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2012 - 07:46:14 PM »
I s the belhousing centered on the back of the block ?

Challenger - You`ll wish You Hadn`t

Offline cwestra

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1120
Re: What Input Bearing Retainer for AAR 4-Speed Trans?
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2012 - 08:09:51 PM »
I s the belhousing centered on the back of the block ?
I am assuming it is, with the locating pins.
Corey - in Northern Indiana