Author Topic: Oil?  (Read 3636 times)

Offline 4Cruizn

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Oil?
« on: August 04, 2012 - 11:38:21 PM »
So been thinking about oil.   Back in the day when I first bought the Hardtop . . . . The only oil that I ever used 10W-40  . . . . Now in today's world, there are many choices.   I read the thread about the member that changed his oil to synthetic and now he has a knock and I guess I have some questions. 

1) What oil does everyone use? 
2) If your car needs additional minerals, what then? 
3) Is there any benefit to use the additional minerals in an engine that doesn't need it? 
4) In my convertible, I have about a stock 440 roller . . .so do I use 10W-30 or 10W-40?
The hard top requires added minerals so I use Kendall liquid titanium with the added zink.  10W-50 I found it for 4.00 a quart in the local auto parts.  So far so good! 

Does anyone have an old style motor using synthetic?  Does synthetic have the added minerals needed for flat tappet motors?
« Last Edit: August 04, 2012 - 11:45:35 PM by 4Cruizn »




Offline bandt

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Re: Oil?
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2012 - 12:13:21 AM »

Offline 4Cruizn

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Re: Oil?
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2012 - 12:18:56 AM »
Yeah I saw that topic but I'm looking for additional info on this subject.  I think I found a good oil with added minerals and under 4 bucks a quart!   I guess more my question is what do you use in your standard motor?  10w-30 in the summer?   Or 10w-40?  Is the thinner oil better in the heat?  What is the best choice?   
« Last Edit: August 05, 2012 - 12:20:32 AM by 4Cruizn »

Offline BS CUDA

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Re: Oil?
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2012 - 12:26:54 AM »
Yeah I saw that topic but I'm looking for additional info on this subject.  I think I found a good oil with added minerals and under 4 bucks a quart!   I guess more my question is what do you use in your standard motor?  10w-30 in the summer?   Or 10w-40?  Is the thinner oil better in the heat?  What is the best choice?

 I run the 15W40 Royal Purple and it has a CI4 rating. Around here it is $10.00 a litre x 8 litres as I run a deep sump. A little pricey but come on really $80.00 a year for an oil change to protect the engine - even though I only put on approx 2 or 3thousand km's a year (abusive km's  ) MY thoughts are the thicker oil is better in the heat - stays thicker? The thinner stuff should be better for winter as it will move / lubricate quicker.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2012 - 12:29:18 AM by BS CUDA »

Offline 4Cruizn

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Re: Oil?
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2012 - 12:31:10 AM »
I run the 15W40 Royal Purple and it has a CI4 rating. Around here it is $10.00 a litre x 8 litres as I run a deep sump. A little pricey but come on really $80.00 a year for an oil change to protect the engine - even though I only put on approx 2 or 3thousand km's a year (abusive km's  ) MY thoughts are the thicker oil is better in the heat - stays thicker? The thinner stuff should be better for winter as it will move / lubricate quicker.

So I am running the Kendall 20W-50 titanium racing oil with the added stuff.  Less than 30 bucks with filter! 

Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: Oil?
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2012 - 09:06:20 AM »
 No flat tappet cam will live on the new oils rated SM or SN , you need more zinc , I was selling the Z alt oil in Canada formulated for older engines to SJ spec & better .
 Weight wise 20-50 is too thick you eat up HP turning the oil pump , I have always used 10-40 unless the brg clearances are excessive such as in a race engine then 20-50 is good . The problem is that "race" weight oils 2-50 for example are the only oils exempt from the sm/sn ratings so then you are left with Z-Alt & Brad Penn specialty oils made is small batches
 

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Offline mikeljAAR

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Re: Oil?
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2012 - 01:57:46 PM »
I use only CJ-4 rated oils in all my older cars (pre-'75), it has all the proper additives needed for older engines with flat tappets.  I also buy whatever is the cheapest, lately a 5 quart jug of Motorcraft is going for $14.39.  15W40 is fine for all year where I live.
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Offline DocMel

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Re: Oil?
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2012 - 11:28:37 AM »
Lots of thoughts on this issue:   Ill give you my side.

I have had lots of old iron.  57-and 60 Harley, 68 Vette 427, 71 El Camino 454, 75 and 77 Pontiac trans am  (455 and 403), 70 Cuda six pack, etc, etc.  Now a dated 68  440 in my 71 Cuda.

Bottom line:  If I have just rebuilt a motor, I go synthetic  (full synthetic all the way).  I dont do the dino first, then synthetic as recommended by some:  I have never had a ring seat issue, or some of the other rumours that went along with having to use dino first after a rebuild:  With dino I go about 5k between oil changes.  Why not?.  And full synthetics have superior lubrication properties and viscosity protection, period.

If I inherit an older engine with high miles, I do the same.   The old saying, synthetics will cause oil leaks is just that:  An old saying.  I have had motors (60's- 70's) with 80-90 k on them when I got them, and at my first due oil change I went synthetic.  And it NEVER caused an oil leak.  I use synthetic pre mix in my 1983 Yamaha YZ490 dirt bike.  2 strokes cant hurt from synthetic

But, I can only guess this point:  If one already had an oil leak with dino oil, synthetics may, I say again, may, aggravate a pre existing oil leak.  No proof here, just assumption

The only time I use dino oil is in my chain saw pre mix, and my 1932 Ford 9N tractor that leaks like hell to begin with

Its been proven over and over the superior viscosity and lube protection of synthetics in engines.   HP TV did a test on drive line syntheticss used in 4 speed trannies and rear ends, with dino proven HP gain.

Cost:  If you look at what it costs for 5 qts dino oil changed at 3k intervals, and synthetics changed out at 5k intervals, the price doesnt vary much between the two after 4-5 oil changes.  And the unseen engine wear saved certianly pays for itself in any price offset using synthetics

I have read allot of articles on dino vs synthetic:  The net is great:  Its just hard to beleive what:  I have to go on mixture of what I read, and my personal experinece

One thing I WOULDNT use, are synthetic BLENDS that I see out there.  I dont have any experience on those   

Offline slsc98

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Re: Oil?
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2013 - 06:44:04 PM »
So been thinking about oil.   Back in the day when I first bought the Hardtop . . . . The only oil that I ever used 10W-40  . . . . Now in today's world, there are many choices.   I read the thread about the member that changed his oil to synthetic and now he has a knock and I guess I have some questions. 

1) What oil does everyone use? 
2) If your car needs additional minerals, what then? 
3) Is there any benefit to use the additional minerals in an engine that doesn't need it? 
4) In my convertible, I have about a stock 440 roller . . .so do I use 10W-30 or 10W-40?
The hard top requires added minerals so I use Kendall liquid titanium with the added zink.  10W-50 I found it for 4.00 a quart in the local auto parts.  So far so good! 

Does anyone have an old style motor using synthetic?  Does synthetic have the added minerals needed for flat tappet motors?

Man, with a NON-rebuilt '70 440 in my car that has NEVER leaked a drop, I have tried to read everything I can on this topic and it is a LOT. A lot of experience, a lot of science, a lot of logical reasoning and, of course, no mean amount of, err, opinions.  I mean, so much it can be either overwhelming +/or confusing.  (Sidenote / un-scientific anecdote: My wife's '66 GTO is all original, numbers matching and her 47-year old engine never leaked until she did nothing but switch to synthetic in an effort to get the max zinc-dio-phos she could. Go figure.)

Sooooo, I set out to find a conventional oil that I could have no doubt had at least as much zinc-dio-phos as my older non-rebuilt motor needs.    Note: I tried but, couldn't find ANY Z-Alt products (actually got quite frustrated trying as, I don't "give up," easy).  Everything else I found with high zinc was synthetic.  I hope to gather more info as time goes on as, DocMel, I realize you may very well have it pegged that all the hullaboo about synthetics is just that (but, wife's leak is just too close to home [man, she is p*ssed off!])

After reading everything I could find here, MyMopar.com, Driven Racing's website AND then confirming with a chemical engineer that additive clash is a reality, I settled on Joe Gibbs Hot Rod Conventional Oil high-zinc formulation.  The non-synthetic HR line is offerd in only 2 weights: 15W-50 (Gibbs' HR-1) or 10W-30 (Gibbs' HR-2) and I went with the latter. Not 100% sure when I'll get around to my next oil change but, after I do, I'll report anything of significance (previous owner always ran regular ol' Castrol GTX 10W-30 so, I have no idea if it was older stuff that had zinc in it or, the newer stuff).

I am thinking about adding 1/2 quart of Lucas oil stabilizer and just putting 4 - 1/2 quarts of the HR-1 in; anyone have any experience with or input on the Lucas Oil Stabilizer?  (I am pretty sure the Lucas Oil Stabilizer does not have any zinc-dio-phos in it.)

Spring is just 'round the corner so, best o' success to everyone!
« Last Edit: March 12, 2013 - 06:51:01 PM by slsc98 »

Offline Chlngrcrzy

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Re: Oil?
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2013 - 12:22:06 AM »
I just got some input from an engine builder. He is recommending using Rotella. It is one of the only ones that has the old time standards using more lubricants( Zinc, etc.) The new oils are designed for newer engines, and were formulated to help destroy our old engines over time. I guess its Obama's way of continuing his buy back program.   :roflsmiley:

Offline Bart

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Re: Oil?
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2013 - 11:47:36 AM »
Useing

Joe Gibbs Driven HR-1 conventional high performance motor oil is the perfect choice for big block musclecars and blown street rods. It offers excellent high-temperature protection and is good for loose bearing clearances. Joe Gibbs Driven HR-1 conventional high performance motor oil uses the same oil additive technology developed for the US military for storing and shipping combat equipment. This oil protects against rust and corrosion, even when your engine isn't running! Featuring a higher zinc level than traditional passenger car oils, Joe Gibbs Driven HR-1 conventional high performance motor oil delivers proper anti-wear protection for older-style pushrod and flat-tappet engines. HR-1 is formulated using superior camshaft wear protection chemistry--the same technology that's propelled Joe Gibbs Racing to multiple NASCAR championships!
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Offline 4Cruizn

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Re: Oil?
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2013 - 12:21:36 PM »
I still like the Kendall at 4 dollars a quart . . . How much a the other oils? 

Offline moparmaniac59

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Re: Oil?
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2013 - 12:40:30 PM »
I've seen Brad Penn racing oil 20W50 (semi synthetic) for $4.99/quart, but then you also have to pay shipping, so it's better to buy a case for $ 67.00 on Amazon. It's a pretty good price as compared to a simliar quality oil such as Royal Purple or Joe Gibbs semi-synthetic 20W-50 ($119/case on Amazon). All good oils.  :thumbsup:


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Offline wiging19

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Re: Oil?
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2013 - 01:46:33 PM »
 :popcorn:

Offline MEK-Dangerfield

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Re: Oil?
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2013 - 04:11:18 PM »
Do your homework guys. The new Rotella doesn't have as much zinc as it did a couple of years ago. I look for the CI-4 rating on oil I buy.

Mike

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