Will not turn over with the key in the start position

[67vertman]

I have 12.2 volts to the starter relay and starter, and the starter and relay grounds are good, I also replaced the starter relay.  It well turn over if I jump the starter relay, but not with the key.
Any suggestions?

[Chryco Psycho]

the starter relay has failed or remove the brown wire from the relay  & ground the terminal , if it turns over with the key then you have a ground problem with the brown wire off the relay , the brown wire goes to either the NSS switch on the trans if auto or to the clutch pedal switch for a 4 spd

[dodj]

the starter relay has failed or remove the brown wire from the relay  & ground the terminal , if it turns over with the key then you have a ground problem with the brown wire off the relay , the brown wire goes to either the NSS switch on the trans if auto or to the clutch pedal switch for a 4 spd

with CP. If it still doesn't turn over , check to see if you are getting 12 vdc on the yellow wire on the starter relay. If you aren't getting 12vdc, it may be your column connector, or bulkhead connector, ignition switch, or maybe you forgot to re-connect it? 

[67vertman]

Thanks guys.  I did have the bulk head connector, and column out so it could be there.

Also, I changed it from an auto to manual, could it be related to the NSS or lockout? where and/or what does the wire connect to the clutch pedal? (I think I figured it out myself, as I don't have a clutch pedal saftey switch)

Gulp!  wow the price of a clutch pedal switch is crazy. http://www.brewersperformance.com/search.asp

Is there any way to (safely) bypass the switch?

[dodj]

Is there any way to (safely) bypass the switch?

Bypass? Sure. Safely? No.
That being said, mine has been bypassed for about 12 years. This winter I am installing a regular micro-switch with a contact plunger for a safety switch. Make up a bracket and I should be able to pull it in for about $20 - $30.
Not willing to pay 300 to 400 bucks for a bolt in, period correct piece. That price is nuts!

[67vertman]

I grounded the brown wire terminal, and tried to start it, no go.  I checked the yellow wire with the brown wire terminal grounded and I have 12 V to the yellow wire when the key is turned to the run position, but still won't turn over by the key.

I have continuity from the yellow wire at the starter relay, to the bulkhead connector and from the bulkhead connector to the column connector.  But to check the rest of the way to the ignition switch, I need to remove the column. 

When I turn the key to the start position, the electrical shut off to the radio and fule pump.

[67vertman]

Do I have my clutch pedal switch bypasssed correctly?  I removed the brown wire from the relay and grounded the terminal.

[HP_Cuda]

Hey vertman

Can I ask what kind of negative battery cable you are using? Got a pic?

But if you ground the brown wire you should be good to go as that's all the safety switch does.

[dodj]

I grounded the brown wire terminal, and tried to start it, no go.  I checked the yellow wire with the brown wire terminal grounded and I have 12 V to the yellow wire when the key is turned to the run position, but still won't turn over by the key.

The yellow should only have 12 vdc in the start position, not run. That's what you meant to say?
If you have 12 vdc on the yellow wire, and you grounded the connection on the relay that the brown wire goes to, the solenoid must operate (click). If it doesn't, it is faulty. If it does click, and the starter doesn't operate, faulty starter, bad relay connection, bad starter connection, bad engine to -ve battery connection, bad relay to starter wire. 

hopefully that covers it. 

[67vertman]

Hey vertman

Can I ask what kind of negative battery cable you are using? Got a pic?

But if you ground the brown wire you should be good to go as that's all the safety switch does.

Am I using the stock cable, and the ground is good, as everything else works, lights, horn, radio. etc, I will take a picture and post it though.

[67vertman]

The yellow should only have 12 vdc in the start position, not run. That's what you meant to say?

That is correct, when you turn the key to the start position I get 12 volts.


If you have 12 vdc on the yellow wire, and you grounded the connection on the relay that the brown wire goes to, the solenoid must operate (click). If it doesn't, it is faulty.

It does not click, and it is brand new! and the old one didn't click either, that is why I replaced it.

If it does click, and the starter doesn't operate, faulty starter, bad relay connection, bad starter connection, bad engine to -ve battery connection, bad relay to starter wire. 

They all seem fine, with continuity through all wires, battery ground, positive battery, wire to relay, relay to fuse block.

hopefully that covers it. 

[dutch]

sounds like your new relay is toast.  New isnt always working like it should 

[Chryco Psycho]

I agree , if the yellow wire has power & the brown terminal is grounded & it will not crank the relay is bad

[67vertman]

Thanks Guys, I will try relay number three.

Is there any reason a relay would shortout/fail/quit after installation?

Also, when I touched the brown wire to the terminal, there was electrical sparks (very small) so it seems to me there was power to the terminal.  I checked the ground wire at it has continiuty and I also checked the ground to make sure it was good and it was. So why would the terminal be energised, if the relay is bad. I will check to see what the voltage is at the terminal.

This one has me stumped.

[dodj]

Getting a small arc when you attached the brown wire would indicate that the yellow wire may have power on it. When you attach the brown wire you are completing the relay coil circuit. As a test you could leave the brown off and check if there is 12vdc at the brown wire terminal. If there is, maybe your yellow wire has power on it when it shouldn't, or the relay is shorted out somehow between the positive battery connection and the coil. Either way it would be a bad relay though.