Author Topic: 9-10 Second 440 motor (Read 16166 times)

Bearguinn · « **on:** October 06, 2012 - 10:16:29 PM »

Hi there guys i want to upgrade my 440 in the coming weeks. what do you reccomend to hit the low 10's in the 1/4 mile in the engine build?
I have been looking at 440 Source stroker kits and some at hughes engines
i prefer not to go external oil pump so the 512 stroker is the limit. sum have done 528 with out going external oil pump?

440-1 indy heads, ez indy or eddy viktors ? what heads are the best to get the best breath for my future tq monster?

I like to see some builds and experience from fellow members.

i am looking at a 10k price range build that is my budget

I'll be postin pics in coming weeks of the build

HP_Cuda · « **Reply #1 on:** October 07, 2012 - 02:56:14 PM »

10k might be a little tight but I'm sure Neil here will give you a good stroker setup with a lunati cam that will work.

Machining costs will probably get you as parts are not cheap anymore either!

moparmaniac59 · « **Reply #2 on:** October 07, 2012 - 04:34:33 PM »

I used a 440 Source stroker kit (543) with an external oiling system. Also Stealth heads (ported/polished) and was able to achieve 615 HP on an engine dyno. Well within the HP needs to propel and E-body into the 10 second 1/4 mile range. I posted up the engine build specs in the "Proven Engine Combo" section if you'd like more details. And I was able to keep the build cost to about 8K (well below your budget). The entire drivetrain cost me about 10K. I am sure a 512 stroker kit could produce the same HP numbers with a good set of ported heads.

Matt B.

Chryco Psycho · « **Reply #3 on:** October 07, 2012 - 11:46:18 PM »

Al may have some better suggestions , while the combos I build can get you close to 10s with good traction / suspension....... you are asking for low 10s / high 9s I think , , we did a mild 440 non stroker with a blower & hit 10.0 but doing it N/A is another story , with some creative fitment I bet you can get 528 with an internal pick up . Most of the engine I build are HP street builds ultimately this is beyond that .
So is this going to be a streetable build , what RPM range are you looking at , street weight or lightened what gears , ladderbars or 4 link , tubbed or 10" tire ?
My experience with the Victor heads is they are about 70 % engineered , the rocker they use is obsolete , hughes says he has them but we had to have custom spacers & hold downs machined to make them work , the pushrod holes through the heads do not go to the lifters so be prepared to machine the pushrod holes so the pushrods go to the lifters & even the valley tray Eddy sells for their own heads doesn't line up with the bolt holes in the heads so I would be looking at a Indy head to match your combo . you may want to use a stud girdle on the bottom end as well .
Not sure what to suggest for intake & cam , are you trying to stay under hood or using a high rise fiberglass ?

Bearguinn · « **Reply #4 on:** October 08, 2012 - 11:03:40 PM »

Quote from: Chryco Psycho on October 07, 2012 - 11:46:18 PM

Al may have some better suggestions , while the combos I build can get you close to 10s with good traction / suspension....... you are asking for low 10s / high 9s I think , , we did a mild 440 non stroker with a blower & hit 10.0 but doing it N/A is another story , with some creative fitment I bet you can get 528 with an internal pick up . Most of the engine I build are HP street builds ultimately this is beyond that .
So is this going to be a streetable build , what RPM range are you looking at , street weight or lightened what gears , ladderbars or 4 link , tubbed or 10" tire ?
My experience with the Victor heads is they are about 70 % engineered , the rocker they use is obsolete , hughes says he has them but we had to have custom spacers & hold downs machined to make them work , the pushrod holes through the heads do not go to the lifters so be prepared to machine the pushrod holes so the pushrods go to the lifters & even the valley tray Eddy sells for their own heads doesn't line up with the bolt holes in the heads so I would be looking at a Indy head to match your combo . you may want to use a stud girdle on the bottom end as well .
Not sure what to suggest for intake & cam , are you trying to stay under hood or using a high rise fiberglass ?

i am asking for the best i can get from the engine for about 10-11k
the car is fully tubbed and has 4 link suspension ,
already have fibreglass fenders,bumper,trunk lid and hood so the weight have been reduced alot.
gears are 4:56 dana 60. and a 4000rpm convertor with 727 trans.
i have a good hood clearance and i was looking to get eddy super viktor or the 440-1 from indy manifold.

have you had any experience of doing a 528 with internal oil pickup or know the magic of doing it?

Bearguinn · « **Reply #5 on:** October 08, 2012 - 11:08:10 PM »

just to throw down another quick question what carb sould you reqest ? i have been looking at 950 hp ultra aluminum

TROUBLE987 · « **Reply #6 on:** October 09, 2012 - 12:41:48 AM »

This is my 2 cents and I have raced a ton of big blocks..I had a 499 motor built by barrnet performance in Atlanta,another 499 by Hensley performance in tenn,and I have had muscle motors build me a low deck 451..and I can tell you I will never build another 499,to much cap walk,mains scare the **** out of me..you start throwing compression in it and you are asking for trouble and -1 are over kill..I wasted my money..here is why you can't turn the motor..it will beat itself apart..I had 13.5to1 fully ported-1 heads,650 solid lift came,415 stroker crank,child's rods,wisco pistons,Indy intake,1050 dominator..it made 641hp and 686 torque..in a 3400lb duster it ran the best of 986 all motor,4900 converter,456 gears..

Bottom line muscle motors gave me the best motor for the least amount of money and I beat the **** out it with a 350 shot and sold it 8 years later..check with them and just ask it don't hurt..good luck with your build..

Chryco Psycho · « **Reply #7 on:** October 09, 2012 - 10:16:06 AM »

Quote from: Bearguinn on October 08, 2012 - 11:03:40 PM

i am asking for the best i can get from the engine for about 10-11k
the car is fully tubbed and has 4 link suspension ,
already have fibreglass fenders,bumper,trunk lid and hood so the weight have been reduced alot.
gears are 4:56 dana 60. and a 4000rpm convertor with 727 trans.
i have a good hood clearance and i was looking to get eddy super viktor or the 440-1 from indy manifold.

have you had any experience of doing a 528 with internal oil pickup or know the magic of doing it?

the 528 " build will only put the crank 1/8 of an inch max closer to the pick up so you should be able to tweak the tube for clearance .
The rest of the car looks good , & ready for some big power , using a 4000 stall I would look at a 3000-7000+ powerband , for this I would use the bets heads you can buy & would recommend Indy over the Eddy Victors , although the Eddy Victor intake is good , I have used it in the past . Any thoughts on what type of cam you want to use solid flat tappet or solid roller ? We can design a cam to do what you need .
I would recommend a minumum 950 CFM but would use a 1050 if it was my build , Proform is the brand I would use , Mancini seems to have the best preicing on Proforms , they are more reasonably priced than Holley & are extrmely tunable .

Oldschool · « **Reply #8 on:** October 09, 2012 - 03:17:43 PM »

Isn't SledgeHammer running something very similar to what he is looking for? I think he has a pump gas big block in the 9's. Not sure what his combo is though.....

moparmaniac59 · « **Reply #9 on:** October 09, 2012 - 04:21:05 PM »

Why not build a low deck stroker. Less rotating mass, higher rpms & many will say a stronger block. I've seen quite a few of the 451 low deck strokers (ported B-1 heads) make it into the 9's. And I'm sure you can do it within your budget.

Matt B.

Haddixj · « **Reply #10 on:** October 09, 2012 - 06:56:55 PM »

Is this just a race motor? When I was looking for a race motor I tried to convince myself that the mopar was the best way to go. But just getting a good set of heads will be 3-5k
And that leaves you with a stock block and 440 source parts. For me a stock block was out of the question so I ended up with a 582" bbc dart block eagle internals 930hp for 10k I spent 2k more on a alky carb and belt drive. Fuel setup. In the end I should have went with an Lsx boosted motor would have been just as quick but more fun and probably a little cheaper if I hurt the motor.

So I'm sure you want to stay mopar so look at getting a new hemi and rebuilding it with good parts and a small turbo and you'll exceed your goals. I'll be headed down the mega squirt road over the winter probably with my ls motor for my chevelle and then to my 6.1 hemi for the 70 barracuda.

Bearguinn · « **Reply #11 on:** October 10, 2012 - 10:00:30 PM »

it will be a race motor, and i dont have to spend money on heads. i will use 452 heads max ported heads but i need new valve spings for them and 10� retainers so that will bring the cost down, my plans are to get new heads in the near future (indy ez or 440-1)

so basicly i am trying to get the most out of the motor with a stroker setup

just need a cam and rocker arms

Chryco Psycho · « **Reply #12 on:** October 10, 2012 - 11:19:26 PM »

Quote from: Bearguinn on October 10, 2012 - 10:00:30 PM

it will be a race motor, and i dont have to spend money on heads. i will use 452 heads max ported heads but i need new valve spings for them and 10� retainers so that will bring the cost down, my plans are to get new heads in the near future (indy ez or 440-1)

so basicly i am trying to get the most out of the motor with a stroker setup just need a cam and rocker arms

My favorite place to look is Lunati .904 lifter solid flat tappet lobes , to get a powerband in the range suggested you need duration around 300* ad , the 3 lobes I see are -
TF63 - 294* ad / 267* @ .050 lobe lift .406 , valve lift 1.5 - .609 , 1.6 - .650 , 1.7 - .690
TF64 - 298* ad / 271* @ .050 lobe lift .413 , valve lift 1.5 - .620 , 1.6 - .662 , 1.7 - .703
TF69 - 304* ad / 277* @ .050 lobe lift .427 , valve lift 1.5 - .640 , 1.6 - .683 , 1.7 - .726
I would use a split profile 1 step larger on the intake side & use a 108* centerline
by comparison the Mopar .590 Purple shaft cam has a 312 ad duration & only .590 lift
So the Lunati will kill the Mopar cam with less duration & more lift , you will have to modify the heads for that lift as well as matching springs & make sure to check piston to valve clearance .
PRW rockers are available in all 3 ratios . This will give you roller cam specs without the cost & hassles of a rolller with over .700 lift @ 300* duration . you can always discuss your cam needs with Lunati , they will be glad to help & you can go to a solid roller if you prefer but it will increase the cost by approx $700

Moparal · « **Reply #13 on:** June 28, 2014 - 03:42:58 PM »

Your 452 heads wont support a 512/528 It won't breath. You need a roller set up cam, so it will last. A 950 is a poor choice for big cube race engines and with heads that will not give you 290 cfm. You need to re think your combo, or you will be buying parts twice. as spoken a turbo is a good choice unless you want to stay with a N/A engine. A well checked and built factory block would hold up for a while, but you really need to get an after market block and stay away from 440 source stuff for serious race times and longivity. Next you need to remember about headers. you need a minimum of 2x3.5 2 1/8 to 2 1/4 will work much better but skip the 452's Chevy 2.2 big end rods help with internal oiling issues. It will give you more clearance and a narrower bearing. Remember when you set a 10k budget, you can expect to be over budget by 50 percent. How heavy is your car? Everything behind your engine has to match as well to get that 9.99 goal. The goal is rather simple either using a bb or small block, the key is all matching compatible components. ALAN

joelson6 · « **Reply #14 on:** July 02, 2014 - 07:49:37 PM »

Quote from: Bearguinn on October 10, 2012 - 10:00:30 PM

it will be a race motor, and i dont have to spend money on heads. i will use 452 heads max ported heads but i need new valve spings for them and 10� retainers so that will bring the cost down, my plans are to get new heads in the near future (indy ez or 440-1)

so basicly i am trying to get the most out of the motor with a stroker setup just need a cam and rocker arms

Chryco is on the ball with this stuff. i've read a lot of his posts and he gives sound advice. i've even used some of his suggestions on my car too..

but my 2 cents here is, i think you'll fall short with using 452 heads. real power comes from the breathing of the engine. the more air and fuel you
can get in and out of the engine, the more power you'll make. you can probably do it with the 452's but they'll need a lot of work (unless they
already had the work done). aluminum heads are basically ready to go. you can have the high compression, the monster cam, hi-tech oiling,
huge carb and intake, big tube headers, ect, ect. if you can't get the air/fuel in and out, it's all worthless.

i have the indy ez heads on my 440. got them from hughes with a stage 2 port, went from a set of 915 heads with stock valves to the indy heads.
basically they were good for a second off my time. now if i can just get my car to 60'

but that's another story.......................

Author Topic: 9-10 Second 440 motor (Read 16166 times)

Bearguinn

9-10 Second 440 motor

HP_Cuda

Re: 9-10 Second 440 motor

moparmaniac59

Re: 9-10 Second 440 motor

Chryco Psycho

Re: 9-10 Second 440 motor

Bearguinn

Re: 9-10 Second 440 motor

Bearguinn

Re: 9-10 Second 440 motor

TROUBLE987

9-10 Second 440 motor

Chryco Psycho

Re: 9-10 Second 440 motor

Oldschool

Re: 9-10 Second 440 motor

moparmaniac59

Re: 9-10 Second 440 motor

Haddixj

Re: 9-10 Second 440 motor

Bearguinn

Re: 9-10 Second 440 motor

Chryco Psycho

Re: 9-10 Second 440 motor

Moparal

Re: 9-10 Second 440 motor

joelson6

Re: 9-10 Second 440 motor