Best Torsion Bar for 340 Challenger or Cuda

[71340RT]

I have the factory torsion bars in my 71 340 Challenger RT and it handles well and still has a good ride not to stiff over bumps. I thought my 70 340 Cuda would handle better with the 440 426 torsion bars as I had 2 sets so i put them in. After driving my 70 340 Cuda for 7 years it does not ride near as good as my 71 Challenger RT and handles about the same. I love to drive my e-body cars and want a better ride at my age so my question is should I put the same torsion bar in my 70 Cuda that my 71 Challenger has or is there something even better for the ride i want?  Thanks for all opinions on this matter and i really want a softer ride for my 70 340 Cuda so it is a better driver.

[dfrazz]

Sorry to dredge up this old thread, but I am looking to upgrade my stock t-bars on my 340 Cuda and have been doing some homework.  I'm guessing I will go with 1" or 1.03" as I will be just messing around on the street and not racing, but I would still like a tighter suspension (I plan on upgrading more parts too).  FF has the most expensive, Just Suspensions the cheapest, PST in the middle.  Is there really a big difference between these 3 and if you have another vendor please chime in.  Thanks!

[jimynick]

 

[soundcontrol]

Sorry to dredge up this old thread, but I am looking to upgrade my stock t-bars on my 340 Cuda and have been doing some homework.  I'm guessing I will go with 1" or 1.03" as I will be just messing around on the street and not racing, but I would still like a tighter suspension (I plan on upgrading more parts too).  FF has the most expensive, Just Suspensions the cheapest, PST in the middle.  Is there really a big difference between these 3 and if you have another vendor please chime in.  Thanks!

I got the 1" bars from FF, (Challenger with 340) after some research and recommendations from them. Did not really look for prices. Upgrading all of my suspension, in the process of doing that now.

[YO7_A66]

  I am looking into upgrading my 70 340 Challenger which currently has .92" bars, Monroe shocks, stock front sway bar, and .75" rear sway bar. I was given a couple of options by one of the Mopar suspension companies depending on how aggressive I wanted for a street car.
 
 A) 1.00" bars, Bilstein/RCD shocks, 1-1/8" front sway bar.
 B) 1.06" bars, Hotchkis/Fox shocks, and 1-1/4" front sway bar.

 Since the my current shocks are the worst performance item of the existing group, I will start with that upgrade. So I will need to determine how aggressive I want to go with the entire group of parts before purchasing the shocks.

[HP2]

I love to drive my e-body cars and want a better ride at my age so my question is should I put the same torsion bar in my 70 Cuda that my 71 Challenger has or is there something even better for the ride i want? .

IMO, better ride and softer ride are two slightly different things. To improve the ride of the bigger bars, get a better shock. To soften up the ride, go to a smaller t-bar.

FF has the most expensive, Just Suspensions the cheapest, PST in the middle.  Is there really a big difference between these 3 and if you have another vendor please chime in.

Firm Feel will be the highest quality with the end hexes indexed correctly to the rate and they will have the greatest selection of rates. PST and Just Suspensions has had bars in the past that did not have this indexing correct and people struggled to get ride height set. They say they have resolved the issue. I've just never been comfortable with their "heavy duty" or "pro touring" rating of their bars. I want to know sizes. There also is Bergman Autocraft for torsion bars, but his selection may somewhat size and lot limited. I think he only has small batches made and may run out from time to time. Don't for Hotchkis is making torsion bars now too.

[73restomod]

Running a single adjustable shock will give you the best of both worlds and at about $135-165 each price isn't unobtainium. The last print article of PHR had a good test of QA1's single adjustable shocks, but regardless of brand the principles the same. It controls the rebound valve's rate, which has the largest effect on ride and handling. If you want to step up to a dual adjustable shock they are about $225-270 and allow adjustment of bound and rebound. Which allows you to tailor your ride to whatever you want. Now QA1 upped the game with its quad adjustable dampers, which allow for different suspension maps for high and low speed dampening situations. The quad's have me drooling but at 2k for a set I am hesitating to pull the trigger, but I may anyway, just have to save longer lol.

Point that I was working at is good (adjustable) shocks go a very long way towards better handling or ride, and is easier than swapping torsion bars. It's kinda like having your cake and eating it too, to a point, if your running a 1.18 or 1.2 inch torsion bar you may be a little to far beyond " a luxury car" ride, but it still helps.

[Mopar Mitch]

The factory TBs (.89-.92) were pathetically soft, but that was the back then when soft rides were desirable.  DON"T be afraid of larger TBs, such as ~1.1, 1.12, 1.18 for the street.  Upgrade your shocks (you pay for what you get!).  Uping to ~1.0 or ~1.06 will net you marginal improvement... barely noticable!  So, don't waiste your time with them!!!  At the least, get ~1.1 or 1.12, or 1.15 for your street car;  the FF 1.18 will amaze you, and, you'd probably ask yourself why you just didn't get that size ~1.18) in the first place. 

I have tried multiple sizes for my T/A (clone), with concentration on national level autocross (pylon) competition.  It becomes a "package" needed... shocks and better leafs, too.  The ride is NOT harsh with TBs up to ~1.18. 

I have settled on 1.24 TBs (in the 1980-s they were readily avlbl), and they are great!.. along with 225#/5" fiberglass mono-leafs, and Red Konis (revalved)... today, I'd get dbl-adj shocks (QA1 or Viking dbl-adj, or others simialr).

Also, consider the tires you have... short rubberband sidewals (35-40).. or 50-60 or greater offering sidewal absorbtion on the bumps?
DON'T BE AFRAID OF BIG TBs!

Companies?   FF the best (they will make you 1.2, 1.22, 1.24 if you ask)!  Hotchkis and others.. ok.  (I'm not sure which is it, but either PST or Just Susp had past known clocking issues with their TBs... I assume they've fixed it by now.)

[dfrazz]

The factory TBs (.89-.92) were pathetically soft, but that was the back then when soft rides were desirable.  DON"T be afraid of larger TBs, such as ~1.1, 1.12, 1.18 for the street.  Upgrade your shocks (you pay for what you get!).  Uping to ~1.0 or ~1.06 will net you marginal improvement... barely noticable!  So, don't waiste your time with them!!!  At the least, get ~1.1 or 1.12, or 1.15 for your street car;  the FF 1.18 will amaze you, and, you'd probably ask yourself why you just didn't get that size ~1.18) in the first place. 
DON'T BE AFRAID OF BIG TBs!

Mitch, if I go with 1.12 or 1.18 will that put more stress on the K-member and frame?  Would you suggest getting subframes then?  Remember, my car is only street but I do want a better ride.

[cudazappa]

Mitch, if I go with 1.12 or 1.18 will that put more stress on the K-member and frame?  Would you suggest getting subframes then?  Remember, my car is only street but I do want a better ride.

Subframe connectors should be priority on anybody's hot rod.  A wise man once told me: "Get your unibody as stiff as rules allow, choose your tire, then build the suspension around that."
One thing is, the larger you go on t-bars, the more expensive shocks you will need.  Cheap shocks can't control a stiff t-bar.  I've been running the Bilsteins with 1" and now 1.18" torsion bars (aluminum headed 360) and they can't handle the 1.18s well.  I have some qa1 single adjustables but the whole car is coming apart so it will be a while before I know what they are like (or I go with a different brand).  Tires make a huge difference, too.  With my 275/40ZR17s, I feel the road.  With my 235/60R15s, its actually a pleasant ride, but I cannot handle the corners anywhere near the limit like the 17s.  And it's easier to throttle over steer...

Hotchkis uses a 1.1" t-bar with a 1.25" sway bar.  They believe a stiffer t-bar could be too much for a stock unibody with only subframe connectors.

[Mopar Mitch]

Frazz -- "Mitch, if I go with 1.12 or 1.18 will that put more stress on the K-member and frame?  Would you suggest getting subframes then?  Remember, my car is only street but I do want a better ride."

From my own experience, in the 1980s, I had past discussion with factory Chrysler engineers while at a trade show.. talked about adding SFC.  They commented that the Chrsler unibody (referencing my E-body) was very strong to begin with, so, unless SF would be welded inplace, they would not add much rigidity, other than adding weight to the car.  At that time, my SCCA Solo/autocross rules did not allow welding SFC to the cars (in category "Street Preprared"... my class E/SP).  So, I've never added SFC over all these years... 20+ years of hard competition autocross.  I emphasize that I've had to follow sanctioned rules for my car's purpose of use.

My car is fortunate to be 99.9% rust free and very solid.  Over ll these years of ownership[ (since 1976), to datye, no stress cracks anywhere can be found.  The p[rogression towards ;larger TB, and stiffer/flatter leafs, and different shocks, and large custom sway bars (1.25 f, 1.0 rear), and ultimately using very soft 40 TW tires (Hoosiers).... stil.. no cracks anywhere... K-frame is A-OK; unibody is A-OK; doors align near perfect, etc.

I'm aware that the socket in the K-frame for the TB could, if rusted, possibly tear and need welding repair... I've seen this happen ONLY on rusted cars... regardless of whatever size TB... even stock size TBs.  That socket could be pre-re-inforced eventualy, just to avoid the potential tear from happening. My K-frame and overall unibody have no aftermarket mods (actually, not even allowed by the SCCA 'Street Prepared" rules)... Other club's rules may allow that... maybe someday I'll do those mods.. for additional old0age reinforcement?  buy throu all these years, my car has survived A-OK without any stress cracks or welds breaking.

I do have plans to add SFC (attached only front/rear... fully contoured/floor welded are not legal in my classes/clubs, etc);  the SCCA eventually allowed welded SFC... only f/r attaching points.

I know some e-body owners who've put ~1.12 TB into their cars... they love them for the street!... and have further considered stepping up to the 1.18 for the street.

I drive on the street with my 1.24 TBs with BFG 255-60-15 fronts, 275-60-15 rears (both 8" wide vintage minilite rims)... the ride is perfectly A-OK... local streets, as with any drive, have to watch for pot-holes, etc.... but on the open roads/highway its awesome... flat/stable... a pure joy in crusing!... not harsh at all.   BUT.. for competition-type events (HSAX/HPDE, road course lapping sessions), I drive on BFG 255-50-16 G-force Comp-2 f/r, 8" vintage minilite rims.... the ride is still A-OK on the street/hwy, as well as increased handling on the road courses.

You won't be disappointed with ~1.0 or 1.06, but... you'll see that they don't offer much noticable improvement... and you'll wonder about the slightly larger TBs, such as 1.1, 1.12, 1.15, 1.18 that are readily available.  All of these larger TBs will enhance you street/hwy driving pleasure much more than 1.0 or 1.06. The K-frame and unibody are reliably stronger than most people think... unless your car is already consumed by a lot of rust.

[dodj]

As far as which vendor has the higher quality t-bars, I would be surprised if there is more than one forge making them for classic mopars.
I would go with the vendor that has the t-bar size you want, with the best price. I just installed a set from PST, 1.02". $200.
If you are a member of For B Bodies only forum, you will get a 10% discount on your PST order.

[soundcontrol]

Lets say you wanna try 2 different T-bar sizes, just to see the difference, do you need a new front end aligmnet for each set? Since the ride height have to be changed when replacing them.

[dodj]

I imagine it would not be too difficult to get the ride height pretty close to the same for a comparison. Just measure beforehand and set it up the same?

[AAR6BBL]

OK Guys,
I need a little basic education here.
I purchased a complete suspension upgrade kit from PST @ 7-8 years ago for my AAR and had one of my customers (Tire/FE Shop) install it back then.
Because of the tweak to my trans cross member (visable on my resto thread) I assumed that the reason they had a hard time with installing the right side was because that side wasn't lined up quite right. But I always was having issues with getting and keeping my ride height where I wanted it.
When I pulled the torsion bars that side was a $%^%$ to get out.
My question is what the heck is the clocking you guys refer to, and how do you tell?
There are no index or other markings on these bars that give any indication of which way to clock them, or for that matter whether they are right or left.
A little enlightenment please.
Greg