Passed15% ethanol---will damage older cars AAA warning

[JayBee]

Is there additives you can use to reduce the harmful effects Ethanol can do?

Apparently this is used for a lot of small engines also. Makes filling up a car yet more expensive too.

http://www.amazon.com/Treatment-Conditioner-Treats-Gallons-Ethanol/dp/B004VRLIGS

[brads70]

  Let's keep it away from the politics and focus on the issues related to engines... 

So pardon my ignorance, how does the increae alcohol content effect engines, especially small engines like lawnmowers and yard blowers.

I know the seals in the carbs on our cars will dry out but how does it effect small engines?

Brad, don't you work with small engines and such?  How does this effect them? 

It rots all the rubber like fuel lines. I keep a spool of fuel line on the truck and sell lots of it thanks to ethenol. It also burns hotter and requires more fuel to run . The problem is on small engines is that they have fixed orfices to meter the fuel, no way to add more thanks to emmission requirements. On older machines they had a thumb screw to adjust the fuel mixture, not anymore. Ever notice that new small engines get plugged up more than the older ones?
. It's my understanding it takes close to 2 parts ethenol to make the same power as 1 part gasoline.... so while yes it does burn cleaner, but what are you actually saving if you have to burn almost 2x the amount? Typical government ..... they sell more and get more taxes and it keeps the farmers busy and paying more taxes etc... It boils down to taxes.... more of it!   More taxes in the form of all the spin off jobs ethenol is "creating"  and all the way down the line, we the people are either too dumb to realize or powerless to do anything about it. In the name of "getting rid of foreign dependency on oil" it's easy pickings for the governments to "program the sheep" into thinking this is a good idea.
Sounds great right?... like it's cleaner, we can just grow it ourselves, keeps the farmers busy, creates jobs. Dig a little deeper and it gets ugly quick!  It's another false economy  IMO

[brads70]

Apparently this is used for a lot of small engines also. Makes filling up a car yet more expensive too.

http://www.amazon.com/Treatment-Conditioner-Treats-Gallons-Ethanol/dp/B004VRLIGS

yep... created another tax base/spin off for the government...snake oil salesmen!

[GranCuda1970]

From the article 20% ethanol is just 6 months away!  It also corrodes internals rapidly and breaks down separates rapidly alot of water sitting in your combustion system isn,t good for anything.

[tommyg29]

To everyone that doesnt know much about ethanol fuels, and you want to ruin your day and become very negative, then....learn a little about the subject. You cannot talk about ethanol fuels WITHOUT making it political, because the entire issue is POLITICAL. It is nothing more than a giveaway to the corn growing states, and if you want to make all of our classic cars virtually useless, then all our politicians need do is outlaw the good non or low-ethanol fuels, which seems to be only a matter of time.
Not sure what mods will be needed to make my car run on E85, but I wont be looking forward to it.

Seems to me, if I end up ruining my car because I have to use E85, I would think we should use good old American know how, and use a class action case to SUE THE HECK out of the fuel companies for complying with ridiculous regulations, and then when those lawsuits are thrown out, go after the agencies that implemented them, and then throw out all our congressmen and start over.
Sorry...just a wishfull thinking rant.

[Super Blue 72]

Thanks for the explination, Brad.  Sell that fuel line hose!!! 

As far as the increased ethnol content, will that wash down the cylinder walls and increase further wear on engine components?
 
Even worse if the ethanol increases engine temps to further decrease oil's viscosity...   

[AARuFAST]

So pardon my ignorance, how does the increae alcohol content effect engines, especially small engines like lawnmowers and yard blowers.

I know the seals in the carbs on our cars will dry out but how does it effect small engines?

Brad, don't you work with small engines and such?  How does this effect them? 

How does Ethanol damage.
Fuel Phase Separation:

CLICK ON THE LINK BELOW

http://fuelschool.blogspot.com/2009/02/phase-separation-in-ethanol-blended.html

[Jamiez]

So if you read that article, and you are really concerned about the ethanol content in your fuel, you can see that you can use phase separation to your advantage,  You could buy fuel, add water, and then drain off the water and ethanol/water mix and leave you with pure gasoline.   Of course this will reduce the octane level of the fuel so you might need to buy an octane booster, and you'll be throwing away roughly 10-15% of your fuel volume.

[Super Blue 72]

How does Ethanol damage.
Fuel Phase Separation:

CLICK ON THE LINK BELOW

http://fuelschool.blogspot.com/2009/02/phase-separation-in-ethanol-blended.html

Holy crapola, Batman!  Hydrolock?!?!?!?!?   Catastrophic failure?!?!?!?! 

Thanks for the link.  Good read! 



Ok, my plan, stock up on carb rebuild kits and put a blender in my gas tank.  Premix before each startup.  Set blender on puree for 15 seconds, then  start car.   

[tommyg29]

and pray a lot that our wise protectors in Washington keep their common senses

[wally426ci]

I won't rant on politics here because I don't share the same views as alot of the people that gripe about Politic's. ALL I will say is keep filling up until it does something and change out your fuel lines (Motorweek covered a bit about modern fuel myths). I'll assume this is just like the craze when we thought ALL auto paint would be waterbourne by 2012. I can still buy good old conventional Base/Clear. 

[HP2]

Upgrade your fuel system to teflon, add an extra point of compression, enjoy.

[tommyg29]

Im sorry. I will never understand why we cant just use the fuels we all grew up with. We have more oil than anyone in the world. Probably hundreds of years of supply left, giving us PLENTY of time to develop legitimate alternative energy sources. No reason to outlaw anything. Let the market decide, and not command economy bureaucrats. Now, I would be in favor of tax incentives to encourage truck and fleet lines (or anyone for that matter) to convert to natural gas. We have even MORE of that!
 All POLITICS 

[Jamiez]

Ethanol replaces MTBE which was the previous fuel oxygenate.  Both of them increase the octane and reduce emissions by causing a more complete burn.  MTBE has been found to contaminate ground water. It's not just a matter of how much oil we have.  It's not just a political issue.  There are serious environmental issues as well. We don't use leaded gasoline or lead paint anymore due to the adverse health effects.

[Skunkworks Challenger]

Initially ethanol was considered a fuel extender.  10% ethanol extends the fuel supply by 10%.  Not really because it takes more of it but it's  close.  It was known that it could replace MTBE by raising octane and lowereing emissions at the same time.   That was all fine as long as it was an elective additive and not mandated.  Now, we are looking at 15%, even E-85 (85%) in some cases and it is affecting the food supply.  Corn is being diverted to ethanol production raising the price of many food items.
In 1979, as a Brewmaster I devised a system that utilized brewery organic waste and beer spillage to produce fuel grade ethanol.  The incentive was not to produce ethanol but to lower our sewer treatment costs.  The by-product was fuel grade ethanol.  It was environmentally sound because we were turning a waste product into a useful product.  Now due to political reasons, including politically correct reasons things have gotten completely out of hand.