Author Topic: Passed15% ethanol---will damage older cars AAA warning (Read 11622 times)

GranCuda1970 · « **Reply #30 on:** December 03, 2012 - 08:24:58 PM »

Quote from: Jamiez on December 03, 2012 - 06:55:33 PM

Ethanol replaces MTBE which was the previous fuel oxygenate. Both of them increase the octane and reduce emissions by causing a more complete burn. MTBE has been found to contaminate ground water. It's not just a matter of how much oil we have. It's not just a political issue. There are serious environmental issues as well. We don't use leaded gasoline or lead paint anymore due to the adverse health effects.

If A person takes a emergency crap in the woods it has the potential to reach ground water maybe we should save ourselves from our own rectums and sew them shut. Nanny state Horseshart. Oil / Gas comes from the ground if Envirowhackjobs are so scared about it. They come up with better way to filter it before it reaches the faucet instead of being such a bunch of inconvenient regulators of everything enjoyable..

GranCuda1970 · « **Reply #31 on:** December 03, 2012 - 08:34:07 PM »

Quote from: HP2 on December 03, 2012 - 06:36:45 PM

Upgrade your fuel system to teflon, add an extra point of compression, enjoy.

Teflon brittles in heat and temperature not the best choice for a fuel system.

ek3 · « **Reply #32 on:** December 03, 2012 - 10:06:36 PM »

Quote from: brads70 on December 02, 2012 - 12:12:51 PM

It rots all the rubber like fuel lines. I keep a spool of fuel line on the truck and sell lots of it thanks to ethenol. It also burns hotter and requires more fuel to run . The problem is on small engines is that they have fixed orfices to meter the fuel, no way to add more thanks to emmission requirements. On older machines they had a thumb screw to adjust the fuel mixture, not anymore. Ever notice that new small engines get plugged up more than the older ones?
. It's my understanding it takes close to 2 parts ethenol to make the same power as 1 part gasoline.... so while yes it does burn cleaner, but what are you actually saving if you have to burn almost 2x the amount? Typical government ..... they sell more and get more taxes and it keeps the farmers busy and paying more taxes etc... It boils down to taxes.... more of it! More taxes in the form of all the spin off jobs ethenol is "creating" and all the way down the line, ****we the people are either ****** >>> > > [ too dumb to realize or powerless to do anything about it.] <<<< <<< In the name of "getting rid of foreign dependency on oil" it's easy pickings for the governments to "program the sheep" into thinking this is a good idea.
Sounds great right?... like it's cleaner, we can just grow it ourselves, keeps the farmers busy, creates jobs. Dig a little deeper and it gets ugly quick! It's another false economy IMO

the above words are the most profound of all these post !...look up here ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ dont worry silent americans , soon a law will be passed making it unlawful to drive the ''classic cars'' unless modified to current epa standards. oh yea, that will never happen....

'Cuda Hunter · « **Reply #33 on:** December 03, 2012 - 10:53:30 PM »

I have a 67 barracuda that has a slightly higher compression 383 that runs on E85.
Running it at primarily 6000 feet, occasionally up to 7000 feet.
Just jetted the carb different and advanced the timing and it runs like a top.
There have been about 1000 miles put on the engine on E85 over a period of about two years.
About 4000 in gas after rebuild for a few years before switching over to ethanol.

The motor runs fine. The gas line's have not decayed or come apart.

The gas mileage is higher on E85. And it smells sweet. Kinda like Shine. Ah memories of home.

So the only real problem with the ethanol is that the manufacturing regulations of the product are not strict enough.
One day you'll get E85 that is supposed to be 85% ethanol. Then the next visit to the gas store the "E85" will be 65% ethanol.
This plays hell as you have to re-jet to get the motor to run right. Tuning.
If the standard of E85 was actually 85% ethanol it would be a more viable fuel.

Honestly, as Skunkworks said, we can use waste products to create this fuel. There is no need for new food production to make ethanol.
There are literally hundreds if not thousands of waste products in the USA that we can use to make ethanol.

No politics here. Just experience with using the E85.

GranCuda1970 · « **Reply #34 on:** December 03, 2012 - 11:23:51 PM »

Quote from: 'Cuda Hunter on December 03, 2012 - 10:53:30 PM

I have a 67 barracuda that has a slightly higher compression 383 that runs on E85.
Running it at primarily 6000 feet, occasionally up to 7000 feet.
Just jetted the carb different and advanced the timing and it runs like a top.
There have been about 1000 miles put on the engine on E85 over a period of about two years.
About 4000 in gas after rebuild for a few years before switching over to ethanol.

The motor runs fine. The gas line's have not decayed or come apart.

The gas mileage is higher on E85. And it smells sweet. Kinda like Shine. Ah memories of home.

So the only real problem with the ethanol is that the manufacturing regulations of the product are not strict enough.
One day you'll get E85 that is supposed to be 85% ethanol. Then the next visit to the gas store the "E85" will be 65% ethanol.
This plays hell as you have to re-jet to get the motor to run right. Tuning.
If the standard of E85 was actually 85% ethanol it would be a more viable fuel.

Honestly, as Skunkworks said, we can use waste products to create this fuel. There is no need for new food production to make ethanol.
There are literally hundreds if not thousands of waste products in the USA that we can use to make ethanol.

No politics here. Just experience with using the E85.

EVENTUALLY WHEN THE ENVIROLOONS put us in a position of no other alternative I will probably convert to E-85 but need to research and of course save

for the proper conversion. I think we should get a frickin tax credit from big brother for all of this horseshart inconvenience they seem hell bent of forcing upon us. Serious arseholes!!

AARuFAST · « **Reply #35 on:** December 03, 2012 - 11:30:19 PM »

Additives will become the next product to correct the problem. Right.

There�s no way to avoid it � ethanol pulls water (moisture, condensation) into the fuel wherever it is.
This can cause the ethanol to separate from the gasoline, stripping the octane from the fuel and leaving you with a layer of poor quality gasoline on top and ethanol & water on the bottom (which, if burned, can cause performance problems at best and engine damage at worst).

If you use ethanol in 2-cycle equipment, the news is even worse as water keeps the fuel from properly lubricating essential metal surfaces. When this happens, it doesn�t take long for catastrophic and expensive engine damage to occur.

Many of these new �water-control� additives on the market, try to work by simply adding more alcohol to the fuel.
Alcohol (ethanol ) is what caused the problem in the first place; you can�t fix a water problem caused by alcohol by adding more alcohol.
Need an additive that prevents the ethanol from absorbing water and keeping the blend of gasoline and ethanol together.

like super blue 72 said put a blender in the tank. Set blender on
puree for 15 sec and start engine

Topcat · « **Reply #36 on:** December 03, 2012 - 11:41:32 PM »

Moonshiners are back in business big time again.

Just add Alcohol to the grain fuel and you have Gov't approved Moonshine fuel to compete against the Gov't.
Then just add the % of gas.

AARuFAST · « **Reply #37 on:** December 04, 2012 - 12:37:58 AM »

liquor car: the cops will pull you over, give the ride a breathalyzer test........

That stuff is 63 to 190 proof. Minimum 150 proof.

lights the fire in ur tummy.

tommyg29 · « **Reply #38 on:** December 04, 2012 - 08:51:30 AM »

Like I said, I just pray that it doesnt get worse than the E-10 that is sold in my area.
Otherwise, I guess I will have to spend the money and do what I have to do. Just like all the fuss and money it cost everyone over the ozone hole. Remember that? Now we have to replace what fixed that with something else to fix the fix, probably just because Duponts patents are expiring again.

And, yes. Driving up food prices is another apparently intended consequence.
As it always is folks....just follow the money. There...my son...you will find your answers. But when you do, you will also find governments bureaucrats and media standing there saying "nothing to see here. Just move along".
And always in the name of the environment. Make our buddies and ourselves billions, all in the name of questionable science, and who cares what it cost the citizens? We'll make money off the misery we manufactured for them too!

I know some of you in here do not agree, but I say vote all the rascals OUT, and then get rid of the tens of thousands of career bureaucrats who form much of the real power and influence in DC. That would be a START.

HP2 · « **Reply #39 on:** December 04, 2012 - 10:42:01 AM »

Quote from: GranCuda1970 on December 03, 2012 - 08:34:07 PM

Teflon brittles in heat and temperature not the best choice for a fuel system.

I guess I'll find out. Suffice it to say that as the fuel system in my Challenger has been rebuilt this winter, it was all set up to be fully alcohol compatible to allow me to use E85. Teflon line, high volume pump, compatible regualtor, the works. However, I'm doing it because of compression, not some mandate. I've even got the quickie, alcohol test kit I can keep in my trunk to verify content if I choose. 110 octane out of the corner gas station pump for the price of premium gas is a win/win situation for me compared to running race gas for $8 a gallon that I can only get at one station in town that would also mean I would have to carry extra gas with me on any trip out of town.

I'm surprised so many of you are all up in arms about it. Alcohol as a racing fuel has been used for decades. Yes, it requires some changes from running gas, but it isn't the end of the world to use it as a fuel. Yes it takes twice of much of it, yes it dies out components, yes it requires a differnt approach. That's all. Adjust and benefit form it

Now, the fact that the US Government is screwing it up, yeah, that I can see. Brazil has renewable fuels much more dialed in as a program than we could ever imagine achieving, yet instead of copying an established model, the Fed has managed to come up with a bunch of dumb mandates that have further reaching impacts over a greater cross section. Go figure.

'Cuda Hunter · « **Reply #40 on:** December 04, 2012 - 10:47:38 AM »

Where are you getting your E85 fuel from?

I only know of a few in town.
As I recall your in the Springs.

brads70 · « **Reply #41 on:** December 04, 2012 - 11:02:16 AM »

I replaced all the fuel lines and added a return line last spring. With all this happening to the fuels I added stainless hard lines and used Teflon/PTFE lined stainless braided flex/soft lines. I did it not just for the ethanol but also if I wanted to go EFI in the future then this stuff is all rated for that too. Got the Teflon hoses and fittings from here. I used -8AN and/or 1/2" stainless hard lines with Swagelok both supply and return.
Rubber hose just ain't gonna cut it from here on out boys!

http://www.frozenboost.com/index.php?cPath=219&osCsid=95e81926bc1d455b3b95733b11cd7226

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/350468719668?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Someone said their mileage didn't change with E-85.... how can that be as you need to rejet the carb bigger to run it?

HP2 · « **Reply #42 on:** December 04, 2012 - 12:50:36 PM »

Quote from: 'Cuda Hunter on December 04, 2012 - 10:47:38 AM

Where are you getting your E85 fuel from?

I only know of a few in town.
As I recall your in the Springs.

Yup, there are only a few here. Acorn, Western, and Farmcrest have pumps at select locations. The Western down the street from me will probably be my most consistent supplier. I haven't checked their content levels yet, but I have heard E85 can vary considerably in its actual values, like you pointed out.

Quote from: brads70 on December 04, 2012 - 11:02:16 AM

Someone said their mileage didn't change with E-85.... how can that be as you need to rejet the carb bigger to run it?

I don't see how that's possible. In my Suburban, the change in mileage from gas to E85 means the E85 has to sell $.65 less than gasoline for the decrease in mileage to pan out to be in equal in cost per mile driven. In my Challenger, I really don't care, the octane is what I'm after. Mileage is a tertiary concern.

CarelianCuda · « **Reply #43 on:** December 04, 2012 - 03:53:21 PM »

Quote from: 'Cuda Hunter on December 03, 2012 - 10:53:30 PM

I have a 67 barracuda that has a slightly higher compression 383 that runs on E85.
Running it at primarily 6000 feet, occasionally up to 7000 feet.
Just jetted the carb different and advanced the timing and it runs like a top.
There have been about 1000 miles put on the engine on E85 over a period of about two years.
About 4000 in gas after rebuild for a few years before switching over to ethanol.

The motor runs fine. The gas line's have not decayed or come apart.

The gas mileage is higher on E85. And it smells sweet. Kinda like Shine. Ah memories of home.

So the only real problem with the ethanol is that the manufacturing regulations of the product are not strict enough.
One day you'll get E85 that is supposed to be 85% ethanol. Then the next visit to the gas store the "E85" will be 65% ethanol.
This plays hell as you have to re-jet to get the motor to run right. Tuning.
If the standard of E85 was actually 85% ethanol it would be a more viable fuel.

Honestly, as Skunkworks said, we can use waste products to create this fuel. There is no need for new food production to make ethanol.
There are literally hundreds if not thousands of waste products in the USA that we can use to make ethanol.

No politics here. Just experience with using the E85.

Great stuff!!
Only E85 what we have here is called the RE85 (R means the Recycled), made from foodstock wastes,
but lot of other garbages are planned to use in the future.
http://www.st1.eu/index.php?id=2875

Skunkworks Challenger · « **Reply #44 on:** December 04, 2012 - 06:56:46 PM »

Quote

Honestly, as Skunkworks said, we can use waste products to create this fuel. There is no need for new food production to make ethanol.
There are literally hundreds if not thousands of waste products in the USA that we can use to make ethanol.

There is indeed lots of waste items or alternate materials that can be used to make ethanol. The problem always comes down to feasibility. Some items are difficult to process or located in areas where transporting them would prohibit realistic economics.
When I was involved in making ethanol from brewery waste we sized the plant to produce 850,000 gallons/year of 200 proof fuel grade ethanol. This was based on producing a certain amount of beer and the resultant waste expected. We found we had extra capacity so explored other waste products to process. These included cheese whey, waste Coke syrup concentrate, distressed grains and lignin waste from the paper making process and corn syrup. Distress grains and corn syrup usually was the result of rail road accidents, mistakes or what ever. If the railroad has an accident or misplaces a car with a commodity intended for food use it usually ends up being classified as salvage and then they own it. It is difficult and expensive for them to get rid of 180,000 pounds of grain or 220,000 pounds of corn syrup per car load as salvage. So, the railroads would give us the stuff just to get it off their hands.
So yes, ethanol can be made from many different items but at a cost. I like the idea of using low value or other wise waste materials but not taking perfectly good grain out of the food or feed chain. It is costing consumers a lot. We do not have a shortage of petroleum.

Author Topic: Passed15% ethanol---will damage older cars AAA warning (Read 11622 times)

GranCuda1970

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GranCuda1970

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ek3

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'Cuda Hunter

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GranCuda1970

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AARuFAST

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Topcat

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AARuFAST

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tommyg29

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HP2

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'Cuda Hunter

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brads70

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HP2

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CarelianCuda

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Skunkworks Challenger

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