Assist Needed: shopping for new clutch, parts (waiting for verdict on my trans)

[slsc98]

Goood morning and Happy Holidays to everyone!

I am VERY new here and I am hoping I can get some sage, experienced advice on the best place to go for parts and the best parts to get.

Well, the clutch went out in my '73 Challenger (833 4-spd and a 440 Magnum engine that came out of a'70 GTX) and a lifelong, professional mechanic pulled it and the trans for me this weekend.

The pilot bushing was obviously bad and that resulted in the last 2" or so of the end of the shaft are obviously worn out of round (to naked eye and fingertip) and he suggested I have someone who specializes in rebuilds go inside of it and determine if there is any damage or need for replacement to any gears, shaft, parts ect *inside* the trans. I have a relative who is amachinist specializing in doing work for race teams and he is assisting me in getting the transmission to just that specilaist.

While I waiting on the verdict of the inside of the tranny, I know now I have a shoping list that includes, at a minimum, the following items:

Clutch
 
Pressure Plate (the one that came out of it was "Borg + Beck 3-finger pressure plate." and had a capital 'S" inside a square stamped onto it. There was also the word 'Model' but, no # other than what appears to be pats pending #'s. Does the the capital 'S' inside that square stand for anything? Several people seem to think the clutch was one built / intended for racing, which I can't do.)
 
Throwout Bearing

Flywheel 11" diameter (This is *if* my machinist relative can bring it back to true without having to remove to much material

Center cross member (upon removal, we found two of the side flanges cracked)

Spacers (are these truly necessary?  I ask as it struck me as odd that one catalog I skimmed through was asking $16 per small piece of metal and yet only $26 for the cross member flange.  Must piece some pretty special small pieces of steel, I gather?)
 
Seal for front trans seal
 
Shifter lever seals
 
Pilot bushing


I am not only out of my element here, I am kinda heartsick with my beloved 'Mischif' torn apart in my buddy's garage.

Most of all, I am extrememly apppreciative of any assist in getting the best parts for my intended use (I wanna DRIVE her, a LOT -- NOT hide her away in a garage somewhere and definitely not race her or anything like that).

Money is also an issue (funny, didn't seem to be when I dropped the hamer and cleaned out my bank account to 'adopt' her ;-) so, I am  trying avoid paying full retail. 

My buddy is a fulltime mechanic (and former auto service owner) and his boss has already said I can use his business account to get parts, if it'll save me some $ but question is, where to go to avoid full retail prices?

Thanks in advance and I apologize if I have not given enough info up front. I will do my very best to answer any questions on info I have inadvertantly left out.

Have a great day!
 

[slsc98]

Uh-oh . . . 23 views and no replies. Guess my original post sounds too "needy", huh?   My apologies but, I've only been "in the deep end of pool" with y'all a short while yet! 

In the mean time, here's a question that I hope is not going have an answer that says I have an even bigger problem than needing to replace a clutch and have the tranny diagnosed:

Is it possible to hook up (correctly) a 23-spline shaft transmission to a 440 Magnum engine?

Reason I ask is, I know the engine in my '73 Chally came out of '70 GTX.   But, the shaft on the transmission I pulled out of the same Chally Saturday has 23 splines.

Looking through an old (2006) YearOne catalog, I see that the first throwout bearing they show is for 23-spline shafts, are 1" and, "for all engines except 440"

Adding to my concern is the throwout bearing directly beneath that which is described as being for all '67-74 440 engines but, it is, "for 1-3/16", 18-spline shafts"      

I'm wondering if whomever owned the car before the gent who sold it to me "broke a commandment" of some kind by mating a 23-spline shaft tranny up to a 440 engine.

Thoughts?     Advice?     Direction?

I haven't gotten to shopping for the pilot bushing, yet; perhaps my answer will lie there . . .

In any event, thanks in advance for any experienced input!

[Chlngrcrzy]

Wish i could help you out. I am waiting on my motor to come back from the builders, and then i will be in the same boat with you, looking to buy flywheel, clutch, pressure plate , bearing, fork, etc, for my 440. I figured on hitting the threads and doing some searches once i was ready to pull the trigger. Have you tried doing some searches, to see if there are any similar posts?

[slsc98]

Hey man, thanks for the reply (it was gettin' kinda lonely in here for moment there   

If you have a 1-3/16" / 18-spline shaft you're golden.  (Unfortunately, unless some of our forum gurus can ease my anxieties, my tranny is 1" / 23-spline.)

To be totally upfront, I have not yet tried a search of past threads but, mainly because my experience with other forums (e.g., shotgunworld.com, etc.) is that: a) the search engines can be pretty exasperating (may not be the case here) and; b) I need to set aside enough time (e.g., several mornings of pots of coffee each) to do a thorough search. As coincidence would have it, I had a project dropped on me at work that is consuming gobs of time, both on and off duty.

So far I've checked out YearOne and just left Summit's website which is kind of neat as you can enter various "filters" to sort down to the items they carry and which are applicable to your combination.

Of course, the computer won't recognize things when I enter an engine size of 440 against a 1" diameter / 23-spline input shaft unless I leave off the 1973, model, etc.  What does remain are 10.5" discs as opposed to the 11" I pulled out of the car.

I have matched the last 8 #'s of my VIN to those stamped onto the flat on the 1" dia. / 23-spline tranny so, while I can be pretty confident I have the tranny the car left the factory with, I remain dyin' of curiosity as to how and why the previous owners pulled off this 1"/23-spline install onto a 440 Magnum     

I am sure I am missing something and I don't want to jump to conclusions; I just want to find the best clutch kit for street use and to successfully (correctly) match a 1"/23-spline trans up to a 440 . . .

[MY J0B]

Contact Wayne at Brewers Performance for all the 4 spd parts you'll ever need. They are the best in the business.
You can run a 23 spline with your 440 without any issues.  http://www.brewersperformance.com/

[4 speed fish]

The 23 spline will work good for a 440.All the 440 for E bodies 70 to 71  came with the 18 spline tranny.The parts home computer will not take your input because no 440  was issued from 72 to 74.What is the part # on your bell housing.

[slsc98]

4-speed fish, thank YOU for the reply, very much!

Okay, I will ask my buddy to get the bell housing # tonite (my dismembered baby is in his garage, about an hour from where I lay my head).

He is a lifelong Mopar addict himself and, the whole time we've working on thi together, he keeps whispering to himself, "Lord, I wonder where the 340 that came out of this originally has ended up!" (He adores the 340's).

Something interesting I noticed when I did pare my clutch kit choices down for "440, 23-spline street use" (ended up with only 2 on Summits website) was the vast difference between the low ($180) and high ($950) prices -- with really no choices in between!

[4 speed fish]

I would call center force clutches.I have the center force II and the pedal feel is just right.The kit is about 400 bucks.When you use the center force you will need to remove the big spring on the pedal assembly.

[slsc98]

Contact Wayne at Brewers Performance for all the 4 spd parts you'll ever need. They are the best in the business.
You can run a 23 spline with your 440 without any issues.  http://www.brewersperformance.com/

Many thanks, MY JOB -- I will be calling Wayne asap. Huge relief the eng / tranny match is okay and now I am simply back to shopping replacement kits, parts, etc!

This forum is the best!

[slsc98]

4 speed fish, thank YOU and especially for the time you graciously afforded me on the phone this evening.

I said it before and I'll say it again and again, the members of this forum are THE BEST!

Seriously y'all; your assist is the ONLY thing keeping my spirits up until I get my baby back on the asphalt, where she belongs!

[Chryco Psycho]

I use McLeod clutches & have serious problems with Centerforce , Mcleod offers clutches in various price ranges for different power outputs as well 

[slsc98]

Hello, everyone; just thought I'd do right by y'all that have taken the time to assist me and give an update (ChrycoPsycho, glad to see you saw my "I'm adrift post" also):

Well, 4 speed fish, just as you predicted / guessed, whomever dropped the 440 in my originally 340 car FAILED to also install the correct size (OD = outside diameter) bearing retainer at the same time.

I measured it last night and, the center bore size of the center opening in the bell housing that came with the 440 is inside diameter (ID) of 4.80.

Conversely, I measured the bearing retainer on the still original-to-my car tranny and it is OD 4.35"

Not surprisingly, that .045 difference between the OD of the retainer and the ID of the bell housing was plenty enough "slop" to ensure the end of my 1" / 23-spline shaft would get boogered to h*ll and destroy the pilot bushing.

Also, and as recommended, I called Wayne at Brewers this morning and he consoled me (somewhat), "Thor, we see this ALL the time."

To add to my sorrow, it now *"appears"* (so far) that everything inside my original tranny (gears, etc) may not have been non-damaged yet and that I caught this  whole thing early on enough (but, who can really say for 100% sure). 

Bottomline: I am left with a 1"/23-spline input shaft that has an end that's boogered out-of-round.

From what I'm hearing, "Good luck finding one of those" and "Even if you do, after (competent!) labor, etc., you'll be tapping on the doorstep of the $1,299 Brewers can send me a 100% good replacement tranny for."

At this point, I'm inclined to order and install the replacement tranny from Brewers and hold onto the original-to-my-car tranny and worry about options for salvaging it with a replacement shaft later, down the road.

I sure want to thank everyone here, this saga obviously ain't over so, please keep the feedback, input and experience coming (I respect the h*ll out of what each of you has gone through for that experience!)

For instance, I need to ask Wayne if the replacement tranny they send me will be 1"/23-spline shaft with the only 'modification" being a 4.80" bearing retainer or, are they going to recommend I go up to a 1-3/16" / 18-spline shaft . . . (and, obviously, also clutch) . . .

And, 4 speed fish, I now have you on speed dial!  ;-)

[Changin Gears]

Libertys in Taylor MI can repair that input shaft.

[bigblue73]

Try Mopar City in Oregon, Illinois.  The Pontnack boys should have what you need.

www.moparcity.com
PHONE 815-732-7751
TOLL FREE 1-800-426-HEMI

[oldkimmer]

.................U can get a new roller bearing for the crank registar then u can use ur original tranny as the input shaft wont be riding on the worn spot...............i think about 1992 and up 318-360 applicatiopn right from ma mopar.....kim.....