Author Topic: FACTORY EXACT EXHAUST (Read 53285 times)

anlauto · « **Reply #90 on:** March 23, 2013 - 10:50:06 AM »

I don't own a cell phone.

resq302 · « **Reply #91 on:** March 23, 2013 - 11:20:17 AM »

Im sure you must own a computer, or a tv, or something else........

anlauto · « **Reply #92 on:** March 23, 2013 - 11:44:21 AM »

Actually I restore cars, about 30 of them so far and each one of them has an exhaust system on it, but I guess that doesn't matter because you'd rather talk about cell phones and computers...

resq302 · « **Reply #93 on:** March 23, 2013 - 11:52:58 AM »

Quote from: anlauto on March 23, 2013 - 08:38:27 AM

Be sure to include the price of each system in your advertised comparison.

Reason being, if a complete system from a competitor cost $500 and yours cost $900 (assumptions), then that would dictate the quality. Sort of like comparing a Mercedes Benz to a Nissan ?

The purchaser should realize they get what they pay for.

Quote from: anlauto on March 23, 2013 - 11:44:21 AM

Actually I restore cars, about 30 of them so far and each one of them has an exhaust system on it, but I guess that doesn't matter because you'd rather talk about cell phones and computers...

Again, you are comparing apples to oranges. Be it exhaust systems, mirrors, decals, flat screen tv's, tires, etc. Price has nothing to do with quality! Lets say that Year One could sell an identical exhaust part or kit and be higher than ECS. Would Year One's part be a better quality than ECS's exhaust? Who is to say that Year One did not get their stuff from ECS like they do with other parts and then raise the price? So the whole price dictates quality can't be argued, no matter what product it is.

anlauto · « **Reply #94 on:** March 23, 2013 - 12:42:07 PM »

Tell me what could come out of comparing a $900 exhaust system (ECS's) to a $500 (competitor's).

Dave's products are the best available, I've used several on my own cars as well as customer's, but they also for the most part cost more. (ie: carpets) Therefore you're paying more for a better product.

There are 3-4 players in the Mopar exhaust business that I know of. Each company has their own level of quality and their own price point and also each company has their own target market.

If you're running for OE Gold competition then for sure you're going to want the best available quality wise where NOS originals are not available. If you're just driving your car to local show and cruise nights, date codes and part numbers may not be of any concern to you.

I don't restore OE Gold cars...I restore nice driver quality cars that the working man can afford. 90% of my customers work with a tight budget and details on the exhaust system are pretty low on the list.

If I approach a customer and say I can get them a system that fits and functions as the original for $500 or I can get them a dead nuts perfect part numbered date coded system for $900.......I'm sorry buy "MY" customers would opt for the cheaper system.

All I'm saying is that there is room in the market for every supplier of exhaust systems and it makes no sense to compare ECS's new product to a current system on the market when there is an obvious price difference.

NOW....if the price of ECS's system and their competitors were the same price...then that would be a different story.

resq302 · « **Reply #95 on:** March 23, 2013 - 01:21:05 PM »

Anlauto,

So you know what Dave is charging for his exhaust systems already even way before it is on his site? If so, then ok, but for all we know, it could be $100-200 more than what another said company is. Again, like you said, it all depends on what and how much a person wants to pay for a particular part. But if you want correct, sometimes you need to shell out a little bit extra. Me, personally, I'd rather have something that IS correct rather than just loosely "APPEARING Accurate".

resq302 · « **Reply #96 on:** March 23, 2013 - 04:32:11 PM »

Quote from: anlauto on March 23, 2013 - 12:42:07 PM

Tell me what could come out of comparing a $900 exhaust system (ECS's) to a $500 (competitor's).

Dave's products are the best available, I've used several on my own cars as well as customer's, but they also for the most part cost more. (ie: carpets) Therefore you're paying more for a better product.

There are 3-4 players in the Mopar exhaust business that I know of. Each company has their own level of quality and their own price point and also each company has their own target market.

If you're running for OE Gold competition then for sure you're going to want the best available quality wise where NOS originals are not available. If you're just driving your car to local show and cruise nights, date codes and part numbers may not be of any concern to you.

I don't restore OE Gold cars...I restore nice driver quality cars that the working man can afford. 90% of my customers work with a tight budget and details on the exhaust system are pretty low on the list.

If I approach a customer and say I can get them a system that fits and functions as the original for $500 or I can get them a dead nuts perfect part numbered date coded system for $900.......I'm sorry buy "MY" customers would opt for the cheaper system.

All I'm saying is that there is room in the market for every supplier of exhaust systems and it makes no sense to compare ECS's new product to a current system on the market when there is an obvious price difference.

NOW....if the price of ECS's system and their competitors were the same price...then that would be a different story.

Anlauto,

Im curious as to who you looked up competitor wise as the one "competitor" who has a largest amount of inventory on hand that I looked up would be $730 complete kit for my B body and $810 complete kit for our E body. Even when I got my exhaust for my charger years ago it was still over $600. So if, like you say, price determines the quality, that $500 exhaust system must be not that good.

anlauto · « **Reply #97 on:** March 23, 2013 - 11:45:27 PM »

Quote from: anlauto on March 23, 2013 - 08:38:27 AM

Reason being, if a complete system from a competitor cost $500 and yours cost $900 (assumptions),

Read my statements closer please....

resq302 · « **Reply #98 on:** March 24, 2013 - 07:06:00 AM »

Quote from: anlauto on March 23, 2013 - 11:45:27 PM

Read my statements closer please....

I was reading that as you were making an assumption of the latter exhaust price. Not that it was an assumption for BOTH prices. I would have thought that the competitors pricing would have been known since it is already out there and published which again, I was figuring the assumption was for the latter price.

anlauto · « **Reply #99 on:** March 24, 2013 - 08:31:26 AM »

Quote from: ECS on March 24, 2013 - 03:00:10 AM

Thank you for the suggestion Alan. As I stated earlier, our purpose is not to have a price war with the "competition". We manufacture Exhaust Systems that are exact copies of the Assembly Line originals. We will Advertise what a "correct appearing" and "NOS Style" Exhaust System actually looks like. No props, no gimmicks.....just the Facts! The components will speak for themselves.

I've never doubted the quality of your products Dave. I hope that in the near future I will have a customer step-up and insist on an ECS exhaust system, just as they have for ECS carpet in the past.

resq302 · « **Reply #100 on:** April 05, 2013 - 07:01:38 PM »

Dave,

Whats up with that ratty looking one on the bottom center? Your stuff is better than that! At least what you have sent me!

PasiR · « **Reply #101 on:** April 14, 2013 - 02:48:06 AM »

Dave. Do you bring these/other products to Carlisle show July? I'd like to see these in person.

resq302 · « **Reply #102 on:** April 14, 2013 - 09:49:47 AM »

Quote from: ECS on April 14, 2013 - 01:08:06 AM

On Tuesday April 16TH, we will have ALL of our "Factory Assembly Line" Mufflers and Resonators in stock. We are moving forward on offering Head pipes/H pipes and expanding the line as time moves on. For the record, our components look exactly like the Factory units made 45 years ago but the metal construction is far superior to what was used back in the day. Some scare tactics are being used by another vendor to insinuate that our exhaust components will prematurely rust over time. The metal composition used in the ECS Systems are the same materials used on current modern day vehicles from the Factory. Some of those systems have a 100,000 mile warranty on their exhaust components! Any reputable or honest vendor knows that the metal composition used in 1970 is no longer obtainable for the manufacturing of today's exhaust systems.

All of our Resonators and Mufflers come with the correct "weephole" which drains ANY moisture, so your components don't end up holding water like a bath tub. No other manufacturer provides this correct and functional feature. Also remember that if the internal baffling/routing has been altered or redesigned, the correct sound will no longer be a benefactor. Superior materials that look the same and are engineered like the originals will provide longevity and an authentic Factory sound. Those who advertise a "correct sound" but admit to changing the internal designs are contradicting their own claims. Change the internal design and you change the correct Factory exhaust note.

Dave,

I have to say that thankfully yours DO have the weep hole. I got a system for my charger which was as close as possible to the originals with the crushed in corners on the muffler and after it was installed and driven around for quite a while, I realized that there was no drain hole for the water to get out. Thinking that water would build up there, like your bath tub reference, I took an awl and punched a hole in on the flat end of the muffler on both sides doing one at a time. You would not believe the amount of water that came out of there. It looked like my charger had way too much beer to drink and was letting it all out only the color was a rusty, blackish colored liquid coming out. I question if this lack of a drain hole is what ultimately caused one of the baffles inside my muffler to come loose as I have a horrible rattle noise every so often coming from one of the mufflers. But, at least I have a more accurate and dated one WITH the Pentastar on it coming to my house soon. Problem solved!

Seeing how one of your competitor cut an original open and seemed to be using a scare tactic about the metal deteriorating, I think I should do the same with one of his since OBVIOUSLY theirs are just as bad with holding up internally wise with the lack of the drain hole and the baffle rattling around inside. This will also show me what was the actual problem inside, whether it was rust making everything come loose or a shoddy weld or lack of welds that cause it to come loose.

resq302 · « **Reply #103 on:** April 15, 2013 - 12:45:08 PM »

Dave,

Maybe I should have just taken a video of my putting the drain holes in the mufflers on my charger and how much liquid drained out of there! Although, it would have been a long time draining and waste of peoples time.

resq302 · « **Reply #104 on:** April 15, 2013 - 06:47:36 PM »

Dave,

I just got this reply over on Moparts from Tom Swope. I am completely confused as to how this might even be possible?

I get the internal drains so it would push the water to the back with the exhaust pressure but how would the water ever be able to get out of the muffler or resonator? Here is his reply to me:

Here is a response from the engineering department of the company that manufactures our mufflers/resonators for us. This is in regards to why weep holes are not incorporated into our mufflers. Instead effective internal drainage technology is applied as described below.

" There are .18� drain holes placed in four locations for all baffles. The drain hole allow for moisture to move throughout the body of the muffler not to build up in one chamber. The holes also improve heat flow through the chambers preventing cold and hot spots. Cooler chambers do not let the condensation burn off and will promote quicker rust out. The issue is if you put a small drain hole into the end cap it will become a large hole quickly. You are removing the aluminize coating and starting a spot for the corrosion to start. We do not use drain holes in our newer designs and have been eliminating them on older application because of the corrosion starting point. OEM uses the drain hole because at this point all exhaust is either 409 stainless steel and / or aluminized stainless steel and the stainless will corrode at a much slower rate. Your statement about the rear mounted mufflers is correct. With most designs now placing the muffler at the rear this is the coolest part of the system and is more prone to failure.
Since most of vintage vehicles are true dual exhaust the exhaust temperature would be cooler. Once the engine is up to temperature the gases will be running around 200� F or more at the tailpipe. Problem is most show cars are not driven that much and do not get up to temperature. I would still be hesitant to use drain holes. Your customers will have rust spots on their garage floor from the moisture and will not be happy about that. I have had phone calls over the years about that one.
So bottom line is I would not recommend putting in drain holes."

So we'll go with the experts advice on how our products should be built.

If this was the case, then by his thinking, I would not have had all that water come running out of the muffler when I used an awl to punch a hole into the metal. I also, in the past 6 or 8 years or whatever length of time it has been on there has not had one ounce of rust starting where the hole was that I punched (not drilled) into the muffler in the same fasion that the factory did! By Tom's thinking, my muffler did EXACTLY what it was originally designed NOT to do! Fill up with water! I guess he doesn't want or recommend people doing this as it would make his systems last longer and therefore not have people come back and buy more exhaust parts from him.

Author Topic: FACTORY EXACT EXHAUST (Read 53285 times)

anlauto

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resq302

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anlauto

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resq302

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anlauto

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resq302

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resq302

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anlauto

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resq302

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anlauto

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resq302

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PasiR

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resq302

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resq302

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resq302

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