How many people are still alive because he had a concealed weapon?

Author Topic: How many people are still alive because he had a concealed weapon?  (Read 21925 times)

Offline torredcuda

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Re: How many people are still alive because he had a concealed weapon?
« Reply #30 on: December 18, 2012 - 06:56:18 PM »

When we spend $800B/yr on Defense spending, with $1000 hammers and toilets, yet we complain about our schools?  Where is our priority?  ANd why can't we protect our kids in our schools, yet we have endless amt of money for battleships, and nuclear subs to fight Al Qaeda?

 :iagree:

Unless the vast majority of us carry guns the odds are pretty slim someone will be at the right place and time and be able to use it to prevent those kind of tradegies from happening.Then the nutjobs will just better arm thenselves or wear more armor,take away the guns and they`ll make homemade bombs . I do agree there is not much need for 30 round clips and semi auto weapons for "target practice"-cmon,really?
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Offline GranCuda1970

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Re: How many people are still alive because he had a concealed weapon?
« Reply #31 on: December 18, 2012 - 07:15:48 PM »
:iagree:

Unless the vast majority of us carry guns the odds are pretty slim someone will be at the right place and time and be able to use it to prevent those kind of tradegies from happening.Then the nutjobs will just better arm thenselves or wear more armor,take away the guns and they`ll make homemade bombs . I do agree there is not much need for 30 round clips and semi auto weapons for "target practice"-cmon,really?

I'll give up my 30 rnd mags when the gov gets rid of thiers.

Offline Cuda Cody

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Re: How many people are still alive because he had a concealed weapon?
« Reply #32 on: December 18, 2012 - 07:42:29 PM »
Did you not read the link to the local news in the original post?  My point was the Clackamas Mall shooter was ready and armed to kill many more people.  HE WAS CONFRONTED BY AN ARMED CITIZEN.  That's why he only was able to kill 2 people and not the masses he had planned.

There's as many situations that end like the Clackamas Mall shooting as there is that end like the Sandy Hood shooting, but news doesn't tell you about the ones that were stopped by an armed victim.

:iagree:

Unless the vast majority of us carry guns the odds are pretty slim someone will be at the right place and time and be able to use it to prevent those kind of tradegies from happening.Then the nutjobs will just better arm thenselves or wear more armor,take away the guns and they`ll make homemade bombs . I do agree there is not much need for 30 round clips and semi auto weapons for "target practice"-cmon,really?
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Offline dodj

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Re: How many people are still alive because he had a concealed weapon?
« Reply #33 on: December 18, 2012 - 07:50:16 PM »
I do agree there is not much need for 30 round clips and semi auto weapons for "target practice"-cmon,really?
There is no 'need'. I gave mine up a while ago and it hasn't changed my target shooting at all. Just don't want governments to pass laws based on what they think you 'need'. Hasn't changed the criminal's ability to use 30 rd clips though.....
I'm for anything that will actually eliminate, or make very difficult, the kind of shooting that took place last friday. I just don't know what that 'action' would be. Restrictive 'gun control' laws have been shown all around the world not to work. Didn't make a difference here in Canada.
I wish I knew the answer.

As for the $800B on 'defense', Would it be possible for some of the returning soldiers to help keep schools secure?  :dunno:
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Offline burnt orange

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Re: How many people are still alive because he had a concealed weapon?
« Reply #34 on: December 18, 2012 - 07:58:51 PM »
I often wonder why these lunatics always use guns....
A car or truck into a school playground would be more lethal.
Or why not explosives, as in the worst school massacre in history?

What is it about guns?
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Offline Topcat

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Re: How many people are still alive because he had a concealed weapon?
« Reply #35 on: December 18, 2012 - 08:06:50 PM »
Oakland and SFO recently had a gun "buy back" So many people turned in their guns that they ran out of cash while people in cars were running out of gas in their cars waiting in line.

This all happened pre planned, the day after the massacre in Newtown.
I believe in the right to own arms. It's the illegally owned one's. I.e: stolen, serial numbers missing, unregistered one's we need to get off the streets and neighborhoods. 

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Offline Talkwrench

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Re: How many people are still alive because he had a concealed weapon?
« Reply #36 on: December 18, 2012 - 08:08:45 PM »
WE had a gun buy back scheme here in Australia after the Port Aurthur massacre. All that did is focus on "automatic guns"  or I called it the 50% grab as the vast majority of gun owners had things like the ol' Ruger 1022  .22 rifle, a damn rabbit gun!! and who did these guns come from ... legitmate licensed gun owners ! I saw no crimals  going into cop shops and handing over their unlicensed - stolen guns ..WTF It really has done nothing, just about every single day in WEst Sydney there is a drive by  , they got one last night. Ohh I bet they had licensed firearms and hold a license...
 Alradey the media here and  the Greens are calling for tougher gun controls .. My brother couldnt even license a muzzle loader , THey told him it was "inaproperate" !
WE are going through "social engineering' no question..
I am a little torn tho' as Im not sure why averge Joe  would want a miliatry auto rifle.. :dunno: But I havent grown up with it, I have sporting rifles.. The one thing I do understand is your right to bare arms and why it was introduced.. I believe it holds true today just as much as it did when they wrote it.


 I did like your piece Brad..

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Offline Cuda Cody

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Re: How many people are still alive because he had a concealed weapon?
« Reply #37 on: December 18, 2012 - 08:23:15 PM »
Please don't put words in my mouth.  I stated facts and first hand information only.  My comment (that by raising taxes suggest that the government is running at 100% efficiency) stands on its own.  You are free to believe that government is 100% efficient and no waste is taking place, so tax increases are necessary.

As for my comments about taxes, the percentage of one persons earnings taxed is the highest it's been ever.  A percentage is a percentage.  Each year we vote to raise the percentage or keep it the same.  Never do we LOWER the percentage.  When you take in to account inflation and only look at one tax or another, it's easy to make it seem like no one pays enough taxes or less than they did in the past, but it's not even close to reality.  With all the taxes like income taxes, social security, medicare, unemployment, L&I, sales, state income, property tax, fuel tax and so on, it adds up to a lots of one persons income.  In 2005 the AVERAGE person paid 54.4% of their total income to taxes and in 2009 it was already up to 57.7%.  There are taxes on top of taxes.  Building Permit tax, liquor tax, marriage tax, sewer tax, toll road tax, look at your cell phone or power bill and see more taxes... new taxes each year.  The death tax will go up to 55% next year.  That means if you die and you want to give your hard earn life savings to your kids, you will lose 55% of it to tax.  Our liquor tax here in Washington State is 22%.  Also remember each business small or big pays 50% of your payroll taxes (fed, SS, Medical, Unemployment).  For each dollar taken out for taxes on your paycheck, your employer has to pay the same amount.  When you add it all up the average person works from January 1st to Friday August 2nd 2013 to pay taxes.  And you say people don't want to pay taxes?

As for entitlement programs, those people that are abusing the system and wasting tax payers money is the waste I'm talking about and if you could eliminate that waste there would be a lot of more funds left for programs that we all want like schools, police and fire.  So if a person is on welfare and getting enough money they can buy crack, cocaine, speed or any other hard drug and test positive for those type of drugs you think they should still be allowed to get tax payers money to continue to pay for those habits?  I say no, and I would suggest the crack cocaine drug addicts that are using tax payers funds to buy their drugs should be removed from the program.   

Well...we are in a Wall-mart mentality.

We want to have stuff, but not pay for it.  Not sure where you're getting your figures where we pay the most taxes in history.  I haven't found anything to back that up, but on the contrary, yes:  http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/30/us/most-americans-face-lower-tax-burden-than-in-the-80s.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

So....you think our schools are just wasting money left and right?  Have you worked in a school?  Every single copy of paper is audited.  Everything.  Maybe your friend with his anecdotal story has a case with HIS job is concerned.  Maybe they should fire him if he's paid too much.

Drug tests for those on welfare...yea, that will raise a ton of cash.  Who will pay for the tests?  And most folks on welfare have children.  Guess they should be kicked to the curb and fend for themselves.

When we spend $800B/yr on Defense spending, with $1000 hammers and toilets, yet we complain about our schools?  Where is our priority?  ANd why can't we protect our kids in our schools, yet we have endless amt of money for battleships, and nuclear subs to fight Al Qaeda?
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Offline HP_Cuda

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Re: How many people are still alive because he had a concealed weapon?
« Reply #38 on: December 18, 2012 - 08:41:14 PM »
That's one data point and here are several others like Cody posted:
http://concealedcarryforum.com/forum/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=18

I'm not advocating irresponsible behavior around such items but as you know getting a CCW is not a walk in the park.

Are you a previous cop because you sound like one.


Those increased CCW permits didn't prevent the murderous rampage in AZ where a Congresswoman got shot and 6 others killed. 


I'm in favor of guns w/this capability:
http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/design-architecture/new-gun-design-uses-rfid-to-boost-safety/4662

Especially if you have children.


BTW, I have a CCW permit and so does my wife, but we don't have kids and our firearms are all hidden very well.  Too many irresponsible adults are either leaving their guns out or allowing their kids access when they haven't got the proper training or mental capacity to handle such a weapon.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2012 - 08:51:34 PM by HP_Cuda »
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Offline BIGSHCLUNK

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Re: How many people are still alive because he had a concealed weapon?
« Reply #39 on: December 18, 2012 - 09:25:58 PM »
Nuff said................

« Last Edit: December 19, 2012 - 05:10:27 PM by BIGSHCLUNK »
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Offline ragtopdodge

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Re: How many people are still alive because he had a concealed weapon?
« Reply #40 on: December 18, 2012 - 09:33:23 PM »
Pretty easy to get a CCW in WA state.  Just got finger printed w/my local PD and waited 30 days.

I prefer actually EVERYONE be required to get that done.  I don't need a gun ASAP.  30 days is not a biggie.

You think with government efficiency, that they can find out in an instant background check whether you have a mental issue background, or domestic abuse background?

Best home defense is a 12 gauge shotgun.  Not an AR-15/AK-47/Uzi, etc.


We will always have young men who are nuts who want to mow down little children.  It's how they have access to guns is what we need to fix.  Your kid(s) can and will be next as long as its so easy for these nutjobs to get guns.
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Offline Jamiez

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Re: How many people are still alive because he had a concealed weapon?
« Reply #41 on: December 18, 2012 - 09:41:14 PM »
The last time the Cleveland police did a gun "buy back" they ended up with competition:

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2012/10/police_gun_buy_back_draws_peop.html

Offline tommyg29

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Re: How many people are still alive because he had a concealed weapon?
« Reply #42 on: December 18, 2012 - 10:19:32 PM »
My guess is the NRA has good stats about how many people have saved themselves or how many may have been saved by a CWL. In fact I think every monthly issue has stories about people who have defended themselves recently, you know...its typically like a housewife that buried some scumbag who broke through her kitchen door.

As for the talk of bans, that whole prohibition thing worked out well. Only helped cement organized crime in the USA, along with establish some huge criminal empires, including the Kennedy clan. And how about marijuana? Thats been illegal forever, and countless numbers have filled our prisons because of it, yet it was probably cheaper and easier to get 5 years ago than it is today in a "legal" state.
A gun can be produced in a basement or garage with just simple skills and materials. If some backwoods pakistani tribesman can make sophisticated copies of AKs using crude materials and tools, dont you think that just banning them will only make some criminal enterprises a LOT of money, and in the end, like they say, only the criminals will have them, and they will still be as easy to get as an ounce of weed.
Right now, as is always the case right after a tragedy, the government is looking to overreact. Preying on peoples raw emotions of the moment, instead of waiting, just like a gun purchase cooling off period, until cooler heads can prevail, and we can use our rational brains to solve our problems, instead of our backlash emotions. Like Rahm Emanuel said "never waste a good crisis"
« Last Edit: December 18, 2012 - 10:21:15 PM by tommyg29 »
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Offline AARCUDADEN

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Re: How many people are still alive because he had a concealed weapon?
« Reply #43 on: December 18, 2012 - 10:26:48 PM »
Well...we are in a Wall-mart mentality.

We want to have stuff, but not pay for it.  Not sure where you're getting your figures where we pay the most taxes in history.  I haven't found anything to back that up, but on the contrary, yes:  http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/30/us/most-americans-face-lower-tax-burden-than-in-the-80s.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

So....you think our schools are just wasting money left and right?  Have you worked in a school?  Every single copy of paper is audited.  Everything.  Maybe your friend with his anecdotal story has a case with HIS job is concerned.  Maybe they should fire him if he's paid too much.

Drug tests for those on welfare...yea, that will raise a ton of cash.  Who will pay for the tests?  And most folks on welfare have children.  Guess they should be kicked to the curb and fend for themselves.

When we spend $800B/yr on Defense spending, with $1000 hammers and toilets, yet we complain about our schools?  Where is our priority?  ANd why can't we protect our kids in our schools, yet we have endless amt of money for battleships, and nuclear subs to fight Al Qaeda?
Ragtop, not to pick on you  man BUT a couple of things you say i do NOT agree with. First do i think our schools is wasting money right or left? Hell yes i do and i know this for a fact in my town. Second drug test on welfare you damn straight. I get my ass up every morning to go to work and my first thoughts are my lazy a$$ neihbors are still in that nice cozy bed without a care in the world because i'm going to work for the next 8 to 12 hours to help to care of thier lazy A$$ES and most of them have KIDS because that thier excuse. These is no excuse because there is such thing as BIRTH CONTROL. Most not all people on welfare take advantage of people like me and you. They are not dumb, they damn well know where that money comes from and thats hard working people like you and me but they don't give a crap. All they think of is themselves and the hell with everyone else. Think about this, you or i apply for a job, chances are they job we are applying for requires a drug test so if you apply for welfare your applying through us the TAX PAYERS  so you damn straight you better be clean or you DO NOT get the welfare like we wouldn't get the job. Rant over
Dennis,Ohio

Offline GranCuda1970

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Re: How many people are still alive because he had a concealed weapon?
« Reply #44 on: December 19, 2012 - 12:00:37 AM »
My guess is the NRA has good stats about how many people have saved themselves or how many may have been saved by a CWL. In fact I think every monthly issue has stories about people who have defended themselves recently, you know...its typically like a housewife that buried some scumbag who broke through her kitchen door.

As for the talk of bans, that whole prohibition thing worked out well. Only helped cement organized crime in the USA, along with establish some huge criminal empires, including the Kennedy clan. And how about marijuana? Thats been illegal forever, and countless numbers have filled our prisons because of it, yet it was probably cheaper and easier to get 5 years ago than it is today in a "legal" state.
A gun can be produced in a basement or garage with just simple skills and materials. If some backwoods pakistani tribesman can make sophisticated copies of AKs using crude materials and tools, dont you think that just banning them will only make some criminal enterprises a LOT of money, and in the end, like they say, only the criminals will have them, and they will still be as easy to get as an ounce of weed.
Right now, as is always the case right after a tragedy, the government is looking to overreact. Preying on peoples raw emotions of the moment, instead of waiting, just like a gun purchase cooling off period, until cooler heads can prevail, and we can use our rational brains to solve our problems, instead of our backlash emotions. Like Rahm Emanuel said "never waste a good crisis"


 :iagree:    Screw the control freaks who spit on the Constitution. Most of them have never served or patrolled the line.  I would be more concerned about the government wanting to eraticate your liberty and the motives behind it. It is because some have big plans that most do not agree with and dont want any resistance to it.
    Prime example the massive irresponsibilty of the spending , waste , and debt. Hey these guys got bunkers and facilities to hide in when they screw up the system royally and have armed gunmen protecting them there is no provision for You! You are on your own!

If we still believe in this  :wavingflag: we would oppose any attempt or power grab from crisis.