How many people are still alive because he had a concealed weapon?

[ragtopdodge]

Gettin' off topic w/the whole taxes thing.

Sure, I think it would be a good thing if more RESPONSIBLE, SANE people were armed.  But this is America and there are millions of mentally-disturbed people in this country.  Which is why we MUST prevent the whackjobs from getting their hands on guns.

I'm all in favor of laws like:

- require guns to be locked up when not at home
- require guns to be inaccessible to children at all times
- require at least one police officer at every school, public stadium/arena, movie theater, political event.  We have our troops in Afghanistan fighting who?  When we can have maybe the National Guard protecting within our own borders?
- A limit of one gun purchase/month.
- 8 hours minimum of training, including firing range to get a permit.
- a tax on guns and ammunition to help pay for medical expenses and compensation for victims of gun violence.
- sales of guns to go through a licensed dealer/consigner.
- automatic 5 years in prison for possession of a non-registered gun.  Retroactive.  All current guns must go through a registration.   Like a title/VIN of a car.
- automatic 10 years in prison for use of a firearm involved with a crime.  That's less time than drug dealers get.  20 years if a person is shot.
- nationwide database to track sales of guns.


  I think banning high-round capacity mags is not a bad thing and still won't interfere with my rights to own a gun(s).  I'm not in favor of outlawing any semi-automatic pistol/rifle.

Laws can be reasonable w/o infringing on our rights.  But crazy people and children do not have a right to own and possess a gun; period.

[torredcuda]

Did you not read the link to the local news in the original post?  My point was the Clackamas Mall shooter was ready and armed to kill many more people.  HE WAS CONFRONTED BY AN ARMED CITIZEN.  That's why he only was able to kill 2 people and not the masses he had planned.

There's as many situations that end like the Clackamas Mall shooting as there is that end like the Sandy Hood shooting, but news doesn't tell you about the ones that were stopped by an armed victim.

I never said it doesn`t happen but there are many more incidents that are`nt prevented even with right to conceal laws.

[GranCuda1970]

I am against Gun registration. Been a tool of tyrannical governments for over a 100 yrs. The Assault weapons ban was in effect when Columbine happened did not stop that one did it. I see knee jerk politicians overreacting and trying to gain political points nothing more.

[GranCuda1970]

Assault weapons bans only affect weapons sold after a set date. Pre-ban weapons and mags are not affected and the bans can be overturned later as did the last one. I expect new legistalation to be defeated or expired eventually also.

[GranCuda1970]

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/gun-carrying-arizona-man-helps-nab-bank-robber-and-all-he-had-to-do-was-show-the-suspect-he-was-armed/

[HP2]

Just a quick google search;

Guns per 100 residents, top 10 countries

 Country         qty    rank
 United States 88.8  1
 Serbia           58.2  2
 Yemen          54.8  3
 Switzerland   45.7  4
 Cyprus         36.4   5
 Saudi Arabia 35     6
 Iraq             34.2   7
 Finland        32     8
 Uruguay      31.8  9
 Sweden       31.6  10
 
Firearm related deaths, annual rate per 100,000, top 10  countries

El Salvador 50.36
Jamaica     47.44
Honduras   46.70
Guatemala 38.52
Swaziland  37.16
Colombia   28.11
Brazil        19.01  (the next summer Olympics will be here)
Panama    12.92
Mexico      11.14
Philippines 9.46


I notice none of the countries on the first list also show up on the second list. Finding out who has the most restrictive laws and how those laws relate to the above list is  a bit more difficult to do in a quick search.

[GranCuda1970]

Hypocrites

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/another-fast-and-furious-gun-found-at-mexican-murder-scene/

[HP_Cuda]

Epic fail...

[HP_Cuda]

Comments inline as to my "state" of affairs

One thing to keep in mind is that not of one the below mentioned laws in CA stopped folks from killing multiple folks recently.

The one question to answer here is:
How can laws change ones actions? If someone is hell bent on doing something and there is no repercussion (off themselves in the process) what's a new law going to do?

When you get your mind around this question and hopeful answer I think we may have something.

Gettin' off topic w/the whole taxes thing.

Sure, I think it would be a good thing if more RESPONSIBLE, SANE people were armed.  But this is America and there are millions of mentally-disturbed people in this country.  Which is why we MUST prevent the whackjobs from getting their hands on guns.

I'm all in favor of laws like:

- require guns to be locked up when not at home
Already a law in CA
- require guns to be inaccessible to children at all times
Already a law in CA
- require at least one police officer at every school, public stadium/arena, movie theater, political event.  We have our troops in Afghanistan fighting who?  When we can have maybe the National Guard protecting within our own borders?
At a time when Public Safety is being cut doesn't seem like this will happen - but a good thought - maybe redirect $$$?
- A limit of one gun purchase/month.
Already a law in CA, btw they found that it actually increased the number of sales because it created an environment where sales are limited and a ton of folks wanted to get their buy in each and every month before it was outright banned - plenty of news stories supporting this
- 8 hours minimum of training, including firing range to get a permit.
CCW in CA requires parting of the seas, a judge involvement and training/qualification
- a tax on guns and ammunition to help pay for medical expenses and compensation for victims of gun violence.
Another tax? Really?
- sales of guns to go through a licensed dealer/consigner.
Already a law in CA, but there are FFL laws across the country - when buying from a dealer they must have a FFL license or no go
- automatic 5 years in prison for possession of a non-registered gun.  Retroactive.  All current guns must go through a registration.   Like a title/VIN of a car.
I kinda like this thinking but you must make room for these folks which I am for but that means you will have to let out lower crimes like mary jane sales.
- automatic 10 years in prison for use of a firearm involved with a crime.  That's less time than drug dealers get.  20 years if a person is shot.
Criminal punishment does go up for use of a firearm when committing a crime, just not as much as you would like. Again not a bad idea but our prison system (which part of seems to be "for profit") needs to empty out somehow to put more folks in.
- nationwide database to track sales of guns.
Here is where it get's sticky, Hitler used the registration of arms to seek out and remove said trouble makers. So if the first amendment right is supported by the second and you allow your govt to find and detain/kill you what good is the first amendment?

Ben Franklin (remember this guy - kinda instrumental) said
"Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither."

  I think banning high-round capacity mags is not a bad thing and still won't interfere with my rights to own a gun(s).  I'm not in favor of outlawing any semi-automatic pistol/rifle.

Laws can be reasonable w/o infringing on our rights.  But crazy people and children do not have a right to own and possess a gun; period.

Epic fail...

[ragtopdodge]

I am against Gun registration. Been a tool of tyrannical governments for over a 100 yrs. The Assault weapons ban was in effect when Columbine happened did not stop that one did it. I see knee jerk politicians overreacting and trying to gain political points nothing more.

You register your cars, don't you?  but you still drive.   What's the big deal?  My guns are registered.   

Assault weapons ban might have prevented more deaths from them.  Kind of like the Automatic, machine gun weapons ban that's been in place since the 30s.

Again, I'm not advocating such a ban b/c any rifle can be deemed an assault weapon.  But 30 round mags...again, you are a lazy bastard if you don't want to  reload at the firing range.

Doesn't your finger get tired anyways after shooting a hundred rounds?  Reloading will give your finger a break.

[dodj]

You register your cars, don't you?  but you still drive.   What's the big deal?  My guns are registered.   

And automobiles are involved in a huge number of deaths. Registration doesn't make them safer.

 I don't agree with registration. Up here we tried it for rifles and shot guns and it just cost loads of money with no effect. Only repealed finally this past spring after 16 wasteful years.

I'm all for people to go through a good training course on safe handling/storage/behavior prior to purchasing though.

[Cuda Cody]

A lot of good ideas and thoughts.  Thanks to everyone who shared their opinion even if it wasn't in line with anyone else.  Lets get back to talking cars!  Winter Solstice is just 2 days away and then we start getting longer daylight and spring will be here before we know it!   

[Gumby]

Statistics from 2011. 323 people were killed by rifles (ALL kinds, not just AR15s), Almost 1,700 were killed by knives. Over 32,000 people were killed in automobile accidents. Violent crime in the U.S. has been steadily decreasing the last 20 years. One nut that committed multiple weapons felonies should not dictate a loss of rights to millions of lawful gun owners. Who is going to determine what is violent? Even the movie Bambi, had a violent, hateful hunter trying to kill the poor deer. Pro football is violent and it offends me. We should ban it. The cartoons Tom and Jerry, and The RoadRunner and Wiley coyote are violent and should be wiped from human memory. The Three Stooges were extremely violent. RagChally, there is a reason why we don't condone or encourage the military to take action on United States soil. That would be truly insane. Even if it is "just" the National Gaurd. You saw how they disarmed legal law abiding citizens in New Orleans during Katrina, didn't you? Didn't you see how the Waco fiasco turned out? They could have arrested Koresh any day during his jog, but tried to make it a dog and pony show to flex their muscles. Have you ever, EVER seen ONE picture of the machine guns or grenades that they were supposedly manufacturing? NO? The whole complex was bull dozed down and buried. The fed gov killed MANY children that day with not ONE explanation for their actions. All the cops and SWAT that showed up at CT, Sandy Hook, prevented NOTHING! They got there AFTER the fact. Police are only moments away, when seconds matter. By the way, one could buy fully automatic weapons up until 1986. If you had the cash.

[torredcuda]

  Lets get back to talking cars!  Winter Solstice is just 2 days away and then we start getting longer daylight and spring will be here before we know it!   

  I don`t like these short days when you get out of work and it`s dark.I have 2 more days of work and then 11 days off.  Now if only the contractor wil get back here and finish my garage addition.... 

[spamtank]

I don`t like these short days when you get out of work and it`s dark.I have 2 more days of work and then 11 days off.  Now if only the contractor wil get back here and finish my garage addition.... 

Contractors....     With all due respect to Mopar owning contractors on this site.....   

Always seem to have too many balls in the air or something.  Seemed like mine would show up for a few hours then move on to the next job. 

You'll have to post some pictures of the progress, Jeff.   :