Author Topic: Strange Ignition Problem  (Read 10202 times)

Offline _Russ_

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Re: Strange Ignition Problem
« Reply #30 on: January 14, 2013 - 12:59:18 AM »
Fitted the HEC716. For Australians with HEI, the replacement Repco part (they no longer stock the genuine Bosch item) is a barrel type and incorrect.

The car seems to want to start today, but it just won't run. I had it run for about 10 seconds but it was farting around like it and not wanting run. I do wonder if it's killed another module...

I really need someone who knows what they're doing to look at it. Sigh...



Matt, you sound like you're having the exact same problem I had a couple months back (which I still haven't fixed). Drove fine then died. Towed home. Next day, started fine. Drove for a bit, died. Towed home. Has happened 4 times in total.

Here's my thread: http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=87884.0

I initially thought it was an ignition problem, but after getting it towed home, it started up the following morning like there was nothing wrong with it. Got it to a dyno tuning place and they sorted a few small issues one of which was a fuel filter clogged with brown fuel. Thinking it was a bad fuel problem, I dropped the tank only to discover it the tank was spotless, and the lines were clean. Must have just been a bad fuel filter that its internals broke down (it was a solid filter not a clear one, so you couldn't see).

So now I'm back to the electrical/ignition side of things.

There are a couple voltage drops from the fusible link and somewhere from the fuse box, but I've yet to get it towed to an auto-electrician. Only put the tank back in yesterday. I do know my spark plug leads aren't good enough. So I plan on replacing the entire ignition system with an ICE unit, and take it from there.


The cylinder replacement you got, was it the Fuel-Miser brand? They're a steaming pile of crap (mine broke whilst putting it on).


Good luck mate, and keep us informed ... and post pics!  :cheers:


« Last Edit: January 14, 2013 - 01:02:57 AM by _Russ_ »




Offline HEMROID

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Re: Strange Ignition Problem
« Reply #31 on: January 14, 2013 - 02:00:18 AM »

Matt, you sound like you're having the exact same problem I had a couple months back (which I still haven't fixed). Drove fine then died. Towed home. Next day, started fine. Drove for a bit, died. Towed home. Has happened 4 times in total.

Here's my thread: http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=87884.0

I initially thought it was an ignition problem, but after getting it towed home, it started up the following morning like there was nothing wrong with it. Got it to a dyno tuning place and they sorted a few small issues one of which was a fuel filter clogged with brown fuel. Thinking it was a bad fuel problem, I dropped the tank only to discover it the tank was spotless, and the lines were clean. Must have just been a bad fuel filter that its internals broke down (it was a solid filter not a clear one, so you couldn't see).

So now I'm back to the electrical/ignition side of things.

There are a couple voltage drops from the fusible link and somewhere from the fuse box, but I've yet to get it towed to an auto-electrician. Only put the tank back in yesterday. I do know my spark plug leads aren't good enough. So I plan on replacing the entire ignition system with an ICE unit, and take it from there.


The cylinder replacement you got, was it the Fuel-Miser brand? They're a steaming pile of crap (mine broke whilst putting it on).


Good luck mate, and keep us informed ... and post pics!  :cheers:



Hi Russ,

The problems certainly sound similar. Ongoing and really hard to diagnose.

DynoTune did my work for me ('rebuild carbies' which were brand new, removed ballast resister, new coil, leads, plugs, new module, tune). The coil was a Fuel-Miser, I'd say it was fitted because they don't stock the genuine Bosch item any more, even the Repco bloke said people with Falcons have had a lot of trouble with this replacement (no ****, they will overheat!). I bought a genuine Bosch item from somewhere else.

If it were me, I'd have gone for a full MSD 6 digital straight up. But I left it to the experts (first mistake).

Somehow the timing got retarded, it might have moved its way around with all the work on the car. It wasn't done up too tight and the nut is burred, someone had been using a 13mm on a 1/2inch nut. Typical...

I think the fuel side of things is fine in my car, the tank is new but I'll check the filter tomorrow. Although, a **** load of fuel vapour is around and the centre carb is so black. I'm going to play with it tomorrow when the old man comes over, since the car now won't idle it's a two person job. It wouldn't surprise me if the jets are too big and the timing is too retarded (can't tell without a mark). I do wonder why I paid these people thousands of dollars.

Russ I'd give this a go, even if it doesn't work for you it should be done and is easy to do:
http://madelectrical.com/electricaltech/amp-gauges.shtml

Since the awesome auto elec who fitted a new alternator and regulator (and blew all my bulbs that were on and 12V gauges in the process of fitting the wrong alternator I presume) I'll be buying a new clock centre (again), tach (again) and now volt gauge to replace the ammeter - much better charging system as well.
Matt
1970 Dodge Challenger R/T 440 Six Pack (clone)
2008 Lexus IS F

Offline HEMROID

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Re: Strange Ignition Problem
« Reply #32 on: January 14, 2013 - 02:08:56 AM »
Pics follow.

See how black the centre carb is:


Air cleaner on:


Broken down:


When I had it running again:




This one gives me no trouble:


One of many trips:






Broken down (diff this time):


Before the troubles started in, nearly 12 months ago:


Matt
1970 Dodge Challenger R/T 440 Six Pack (clone)
2008 Lexus IS F

Offline GranCuda1970

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Re: Strange Ignition Problem
« Reply #33 on: January 14, 2013 - 02:55:57 AM »
Looks like a partial timing issue to me. That center carb looks like it may have had some flamage from a timing issue. I think a 440 should be between 5 and 12 degrees advance according to my Old dusty shop book. When it ran was it running rough misfiring. No timing mark sucks.

Offline HEMROID

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Re: Strange Ignition Problem
« Reply #34 on: January 14, 2013 - 03:01:52 AM »
It was running quite well. But it would flood a lot. Now it won't even idle.

If it had a mark I'd tune it myself according to this:
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=74216.msg754736#msg754736
« Last Edit: January 14, 2013 - 03:04:19 AM by HEMROID »
Matt
1970 Dodge Challenger R/T 440 Six Pack (clone)
2008 Lexus IS F

Offline HEMROID

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Re: Strange Ignition Problem
« Reply #35 on: January 14, 2013 - 08:02:04 PM »
Timing sorted pretty well (car still won't idle in gear on the auto) but it seems like something in the ignition is overheating again. I warmed it up and it simply dies and won't start, not that it turns over and over but fires then stops.

Overheating ignition module?
Matt
1970 Dodge Challenger R/T 440 Six Pack (clone)
2008 Lexus IS F

Offline HEMROID

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Re: Strange Ignition Problem
« Reply #36 on: January 14, 2013 - 09:07:29 PM »
The more reading I do the more I realise it's an overheating (failed) module problem.

This poor guy is experiencing the exact same thing:
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/showthread.php?s=0999e07612a787506415b3544f55801b&t=492774&page=2
Matt
1970 Dodge Challenger R/T 440 Six Pack (clone)
2008 Lexus IS F

Offline Talkwrench

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Re: Strange Ignition Problem
« Reply #37 on: January 14, 2013 - 09:21:50 PM »
If you are still stuck i'll try work through it with you . Im in Perth contact me robxman66@yahoo.com.au and Ill' give you my number
"Came too close to dying to stop living now!"

Offline _Russ_

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Re: Strange Ignition Problem
« Reply #38 on: January 21, 2013 - 11:11:19 PM »
How'd you go Matt? Any progress?

Offline HEMROID

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Re: Strange Ignition Problem
« Reply #39 on: January 21, 2013 - 11:26:58 PM »
I'm pretty sure it's the magnetic pick up in the distributor causing the problem. There's not much else that can be doing it. The fact that I have a ProComp dizzy makes me even more sure.

I'm going to rip it all out and fit an MSD system, mostly because if I end up with a broken something or other I can swap it out.
Matt
1970 Dodge Challenger R/T 440 Six Pack (clone)
2008 Lexus IS F

Offline _Russ_

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Re: Strange Ignition Problem
« Reply #40 on: January 22, 2013 - 12:34:18 AM »
Cool.

Have you considered an ICE system? A quality Aussie product, plus you'll have decent local support.

It's what I'm buying. Never head a bad word.

Offline HEMROID

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Re: Strange Ignition Problem
« Reply #41 on: January 22, 2013 - 12:37:30 AM »
I definitely have. But I can get a whole MSD system for the price of an ICE HEI dizzy; I'm concerned that if it fails as I've had keep happening (if it's not the magnetic pick up) it's a lot of money in one part when I can have it all separated for the same coin and just replace whatever breaks individually.

EDIT: Doesn't seem to be a module in cap as I thought. Hmmmm... ICE dizzy and my existing coil plus a new module or a whole MSD system. Tough call.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2013 - 12:52:33 AM by HEMROID »
Matt
1970 Dodge Challenger R/T 440 Six Pack (clone)
2008 Lexus IS F

Offline _Russ_

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Re: Strange Ignition Problem
« Reply #42 on: January 22, 2013 - 01:05:53 AM »
I definitely have. But I can get a whole MSD system for the price of an ICE HEI dizzy; I'm concerned that if it fails as I've had keep happening (if it's not the magnetic pick up) it's a lot of money in one part when I can have it all separated for the same coin and just replace whatever breaks individually.

EDIT: Doesn't seem to be a module in cap as I thought. Hmmmm... ICE dizzy and my existing coil plus a new module or a whole MSD system. Tough call.

3 year warranty is another bonus for ICE (if you buy the entire kit).

Offline _Russ_

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Re: Strange Ignition Problem
« Reply #43 on: January 30, 2013 - 12:05:33 AM »
Any progress Matt?

Mines getting dropped off at the Sparky's today to check it out and do the Ammeter bypass mod.

Offline HEMROID

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Re: Strange Ignition Problem
« Reply #44 on: January 30, 2013 - 06:22:44 AM »
Nah no progress Russ. Let me know how you go with yours, especially if he has any insights.

I've done that mod but it didn't fix the problem, although I'm glad I did it.
Matt
1970 Dodge Challenger R/T 440 Six Pack (clone)
2008 Lexus IS F