Strange Ignition Problem

[HEMROID]

This one has got a few people beaten...

My car was recently in a workshop where it received an average tune and ignition upgrade. The ignition was upgraded to a Bosch HEI BIM024.

I got my car back and it all appeared to be running better than before. Then it die and wouldn't start again. Replaced the coil, checked everything and still no ignition. Got it towed to the shop who said it had killed an ignition module. They said it actually killed two but a wire was wrong within it which is what killed another (which isn't correct).

Got it home, drove it for a while... Same again. I thought fouled plugs, cleaned them and noticed the workshop had a couple of leads around the wrong way (anyway). Inspected the ignition module and noticed a bad connection on the module, car started and ran again for 10 mins or so then died while I was getting fuel and wouldn't start. Got it home where it would start and run for a while then just turn off with no ignition.

I replaced the module again, thinking it may be heat (it was 100 degrees here - car was still running ok). Put plenty of thermal grease on and off I went again. Car dies again, then starts but then dies again unable to start.

So in short, the car starts and runs for a few minutes then ignition kills the party. It'll sometimes start but not run or wait a while and it will run for a while.

Also, they replaced the alternator with a updated Bosch unit which has an internal regulator. Prior to that, everything received a lot of volts (including my new clock and tach, new gauge bulbs, all lights that were on, etc  ). It already had the later Mopar solid state on it. Anyway, not sure if this has to do with anything...

Any ideas? It's got two shops and one auto-elec beat... And me who seems to know more about it than the people I paid to work on it.

[Super Blue 72]

Man, electrical stuff can be a royal pain in the a$$ as you have discovered. It's a nice design but the modules were known to go bad a lot on some cars.

I would contact Bosch since they are the makers.  Never know when they may have a batch of bad modules or from where ever you got the modules.

From what I gather, the only power input to the module is from the coil, yes?  I noted in your post there were wiring issues.  Go back to square 1 and make sure everything is wired right, I know that's obvious but felt I needed to say that. 

You're using plenty of the thermal grease so heat shouldn't be too much of an issue.  If you are still concerned with it then try running the car with the hood open and a fan on the distributor to keep things cool to see if the car runs longer. 

Any moisture build up in the distributor cap?  Is the cap vented? 

What do the instructions say as far as the power input fom the coil?  What is the max rating for input voltage/amps?  What coil are you using?  Does the coil sit on top of the distributor like a GM or a stand alone coil?  (Sorry, not too familiar with your set up.)

[mopar jack]

You mentioned a new clock which would indicate that you had the instrument panel out recently. I would recomend that you check the connections on the amp meter. If loose it can cause a lot of intermittant problems. Ask me how I know.

[HP_Cuda]

As stated, I would check the voltage going into the HEI from the coil. Maybe it's not in range and you keep frying them?

Is it setup like this?

https://dgtlmoon.com/bosch_bim_024_electronic_ignition_module

This might help as well:
http://leighm.dgtlmoon.com/misc/automotive/dcc-3690426.pdf

B

[dodj]

So in short, the car starts and runs for a few minutes then ignition kills the party.

Are you sure it is the ignition 'killing the party'?

It kind of sounds like it could be a fuel delivery issue.

[HP_Cuda]

It's always the is it the:

Fuel delivery
Ignition/spark
cfm/vacuum issue

Rinse and repeat!!! woo hoo!

[MEK-Dangerfield]

Never say never, but if it was running fine before, I don't think it's fuel related.

I'm not familiar with your ignition system, but does it still use the old ballast resistor?

[nqkjw]

I'm not familiar with your ignition system, but does it still use the old ballast resistor?

HEI deletes the ballast resistor.
HEI also uses a full 12v coil.
Have they used a non ballast coil or still using a coil meant to be used with a ballast?

I've got HEI on 5 of my mopars with no problems.

I had the same problem as you're having when my challenger first came over.
After ages of trying to troubleshoot it turned out to be ammeter connections.Not at the back but inside the ammeter.
I pulled it apart,cleaned and tightened everything and problem solved.
I ended up deleting the ammeter for a voltmeter since there's too many stories over here of old ammeters causing fires.

Hope this helps.

[Super Blue 72]

Rinse and repeat!!! woo hoo!

 


I think this is the set up, yes?  Looks like a stand alone coil, not one of the ones mounted on top of the distributor, at least according to this page: https://dgtlmoon.com/bosch_bim_024_electronic_ignition_module

[HEMROID]

Thanks so much for the immense amount of replies and ideas. Really helpful.

I'll answer all the comments as best I can and then summarise what I'll go away and do, and report back (with pics if necessary).

Super Blue 72, the Bosch modules were bought from a number of different sources and stores. It really shouldn't be them themselves. It appears to be all wired up well, it's still a pretty basic set up. The coil itself is stand alone and I did replace that too. There's no moisture in the distributor cap. That pick you posted is exactly how it's set up.

mopar jack, thanks for that recommendation. I never thought of that! Speaking to the auto elec that worked on it he replaced the voltage reducer in the gauges so may have knocked something. Or could the power surge might have damaged the ammeter itself?

dodj, definitely ignition. Plenty of fuel getting through and when it runs it runs quite well, certainly it starts easily (if it hasn't been flooded thanks to no ignition).

HP_Cuda, thanks for those docs. Certainly seems fuel and vac are ok as the car runs quite well when it runs. It turns off very suddenly then has intermittent ignition problems.

nqkjw, the ammeter is new so could be a problem too. Or if it was knocked or surged when everything else was killed... But it appears to still be working when I ran the car yesterday. The gauges have to come out anyway (another clock rebuild and new tach) so maybe I'll convert it.

So given all your info now I'm going to
- Check wiring again;
- Check the coil being used;
- Check ammeter connections;
- Replace ammeter.

Thanks very much for the replies so far. Much appreciated.

As it is I have no timing mark on my car, they said the engine is too tight to turn. I think I'll find TDC using my brother's hoist for leverage then set the timing as a Six Pack should be... And I'm tempted fit one of these:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/190766854680?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

[nqkjw]

Hemroid - just thinking out loud here.
SuperBlue's wiring is correct.(I think I actually supplied that diagram to this site some time ago.Not my diagram,but lifted off an Aussie site)
HEI is so simple and reliable that it works or it doesn't.
The only common error made when installing is the dizzy trigger wires wrong way.It won't start.
Swap them around and it'll fire straight up.
When a coil fails it tends to take out the module with it.
Since your coil and module are new I would doubt very much there is anything wrong with your HEI setup.
I'd be looking more at other ignition related power supplies.
3 that spring to mind are
1. Ammeter as previously discussed.
2.The ballast resistor MUST have been deleted.How are the wires that did go to the ballast joined?Worth checking.
3.Pickup coil inside the dizzy.

Hope this helps.

[HEMROID]

Yeah I've read that it simply won't start if the wired are around the wrong way on the module. Which means it was odd to hear they were around the wrong way from the second shop?

Ammeter seems to have 12V going in and 12V coming out. Ballast is definitely gone, I took it off myself (it was always unhooked). I'll bypass the ammeter gauge and see how it runs tomorrow, if I have time and it's not too hot.

[nqkjw]

Quick easy way to bypass and check ammeter is just tighten both wires on one terminal.

[mopar jack]

Don't know if it was mentioned already but make sure you check the bulk head connector at the firewall. The one with the large red wire. It's a common problem with these cars

[usraptr]