Author Topic: Borgeson Fast Ratio Power Steering  (Read 9436 times)

Offline moprr

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Borgeson Fast Ratio Power Steering
« on: January 09, 2013 - 09:36:54 PM »
I just saw this in a mopar magazine what do you guys think kind of pricy?  Supposedly these boxes clear alot of room for headers, and give modern steering feel. May just be an option if you are not worried about looking stock.
http://www.borgeson.com/xcart/home.php?cat=142
http://www.borgeson.com/xcart/home.php?cat=143
« Last Edit: January 09, 2013 - 09:40:30 PM by moprr »




Offline Jamiez

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Re: Borgeson Fast Ratio Power Steering
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2013 - 09:47:12 PM »
Looks like you have to cut the steering column and it's a lot more than Firm Feel? 
There is also this article on a much cheaper fix that can help you get some of that modern car feel http://www.moparaction.com/Tech/beep/PUMP_IT_DOWN-re-v1.4.pdf

Offline brads70

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Re: Borgeson Fast Ratio Power Steering
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2013 - 05:14:52 AM »
There is a few threads about it over on Moparts.
http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7516054&an=0&page=0#Post7516054
http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7243014&page=0&fpart=all&vc=1
http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7173448&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1

What I don't care for is that the main housing and attching brackets are welded. Sure don't want a weld breaking there IMO? :scared:

Also looks like it's far from a "bolt in" ,steering shaft issues, and k frame clearance issues. For that kind of money it better be a painless bolt in IMO? Then I assume there is plumbing issues? Can you use your existing power steering pump  or do you need another/new one?
For the money I say you can't beat a stage 3 FF box.
Brad
1970 Challenger 451stroker/4L60 auto OD
Barrie,Ontario,Canada
Proud to own one of the best cars ever made!!!!!

My restoration thread 
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=59072.0
 My handling upgrade post
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=73985.0

Offline Killer_Mopar

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Re: Borgeson Fast Ratio Power Steering
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2013 - 09:05:11 AM »
I've been researching it a little bit since I read that article. The always thought the power steering was lacking on my car and have been wanting to upgrade it for a while. While it is a little pricey @ 750 MSRP, summit has it for ~650 and if it makes my car much more pleasurable to drive then its money well spent in my mind. I would really like to see a better coupler, but I have frame connectors and the universal joint shouldnt have an issue with binding. I'm hoping to see some more reviews on this unit because I'm definitely doing an upgrade on my steering before this car season, just have to figure out which way to go.
70 Challenger R/T SE - The never-ending project........

Offline Geoff1200

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Re: Borgeson Fast Ratio Power Steering
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2013 - 09:19:46 AM »
Looks like you have to cut the steering column and it's a lot more than Firm Feel? 
There is also this article on a much cheaper fix that can help you get some of that modern car feel http://www.moparaction.com/Tech/beep/PUMP_IT_DOWN-re-v1.4.pdf


I performed this mod, combined with a rebuilt box , I am quite pleased....it's a new car. :iagree:

Offline brads70

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Re: Borgeson Fast Ratio Power Steering
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2013 - 09:32:59 AM »
I haven't read the article in Mopar action yet. I see Andy F is working on a coupler that will make it more of a bolt in, so you don't need to cut up your steering column.  :2thumbs: That's a good thing as what happens if down the road you have issues with the new box after you have modified your car? Can't go back to stock so easy. I also like that it's a little lighter than the stock box.
I agree/understand about wanting to upgrade the stock power steering. It's horrible! :grinyes:
I went for the Firm Feel stage 3 and fast ratio arms and the difference was night and day!  :2thumbs: Bolted in with no disappointments or drama, tried and true....
Brad
1970 Challenger 451stroker/4L60 auto OD
Barrie,Ontario,Canada
Proud to own one of the best cars ever made!!!!!

My restoration thread 
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=59072.0
 My handling upgrade post
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=73985.0

Offline mopar jack

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Re: Borgeson Fast Ratio Power Steering
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2013 - 11:54:58 AM »
What does this box do for the turn ratio? In there set-up instructions they tell you to center the shaft 1 3/4 turns from a full stop. That would indicate 3 1/2 turns lock to lock. I would want something around 2 1/2 turns.

Offline HP2

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Re: Borgeson Fast Ratio Power Steering
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2013 - 03:09:54 PM »
The Borgeson box is a faster ratio than a stock mopar box, but is not as fast as the fast ratio arms.

The big advantages to using this box is lighter weight, 12 pounds total, less space, slightly smaller than stock, and higher precision. Is that worth it for the price tag, that depends. Firm Feel rebuilds stock boxes. In some poepls minds you cannot greatly improve the precision of the mopar box even though you can change the assist it provides. In this regard, the Borgeson may provide a more precise on center feel to make it seem almost like a R&P set up. Borgeson makes the steering boxes that are used in a number of late model vehicles which, I'd bet, any number of people may think are R&P equiped. So it is a very precision piece. To fit it to a classic mopar, they need to modify the housing and mounts to match the mopar dimensions, so it has alterations and welding on the box. To some this is a big negative regardless of feel.

So, it kind of comes down to personal preference and pocketbook.

Offline Jamiez

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Re: Borgeson Fast Ratio Power Steering
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2013 - 05:32:33 PM »
Thanks for the links Brads70 and the explanation HP2 :)  That clarifies the differences between the options.  Seems like the Borgeson box is really a specialty part for owners who want competition level performance, while the FirmFeel box is more of a restoration part for owners who want a stock look but better than stock performance. 

Did I get that right?

Offline brads70

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Re: Borgeson Fast Ratio Power Steering
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2013 - 07:30:43 PM »
Thanks for the links Brads70 and the explanation HP2 :)  That clarifies the differences between the options.  Seems like the Borgeson box is really a specialty part for owners who want competition level performance, while the FirmFeel box is more of a restoration part for owners who want a stock look but better than stock performance. 

Did I get that right?

I'd say yes your right. To be unbiased I haven't driven a car equiped with a Borgeson box so I can really compare the two? Visually It looks like the same box as my 05 Suburban has? I don't find the steering anything "special" in that.... but it is a Suburban? :lol:  I see a lot of those style boxes( Delphi) showing up at the circle track.( R&P is not allowed yet)  Ratio and weight are the big factors there though.


To fit it to a classic mopar, they need to modify the housing and mounts to match the mopar dimensions, so it has alterations and welding on the box. To some this is a big negative regardless of feel.


The welding is the killer for me. I can just see after getting in a wreck ( God forbid!!) and having the steering box broken at the weld and then having the insurance company not cover the claim and then explaining to the MTO ( ministry of transportation, Ontario--- IE government) why I shouldn't get a huge fine for an unsafe vehicle?
« Last Edit: January 10, 2013 - 07:36:30 PM by brads70 »
Brad
1970 Challenger 451stroker/4L60 auto OD
Barrie,Ontario,Canada
Proud to own one of the best cars ever made!!!!!

My restoration thread 
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=59072.0
 My handling upgrade post
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=73985.0

Offline wiging19

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Re: Borgeson Fast Ratio Power Steering
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2013 - 04:12:20 AM »
 :popcorn:

Offline Killer_Mopar

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Re: Borgeson Fast Ratio Power Steering
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2013 - 10:44:39 AM »
Well I bit the bullet and bought it. I'll provide feedback when I install it and drive it....which will probably be a while since its winter.

While it is a little pricey @ 750 MSRP, summit has it for ~650

Summit jacked the price up to 711 after I wrote that. Performanceonline.com has it for 650, buy it through them. I tried to get Summit to price match it since I was AT their store and they wouldnt - they said it wasnt the same unit because performanceonline uses their own part number. Tried to calmly explained to the manager that it was but he wouldnt hear it. No big deal, I ordered it online and it was cheaper because of the taxes.

https://www.performanceonline.com/1962-82-Mopar-Power-Steering-Gear-Box-Conversion-Quick-Ratio/
70 Challenger R/T SE - The never-ending project........

Offline Katfish

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Re: Borgeson Fast Ratio Power Steering
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2013 - 11:24:29 AM »
 :popcorn:

Interested in hearing the results / details.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2013 - 01:35:56 PM by Katfish »

Offline BIGSHCLUNK

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Re: Borgeson Fast Ratio Power Steering
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2013 - 12:03:57 PM »
Looks Toyota to me, used to sell those for P/s conversions on olf F-100;s
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Offline Killer_Mopar

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Re: Borgeson Fast Ratio Power Steering
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2013 - 09:40:07 AM »
Had a nice package from Borgeson sitting at my door last night :icon16: The unit looks good, was a little worried about how it would look and I can say I was pleasantly surprised. I thought it would be a little lighter than what it was. It definitely is lighter than the original one, but I was thinking it would 'feel' more like the manual steering stuff that is super light. I'll catalog weight when I do the install. I was also surprised to see that the coupler was included in the package. I hadn't ordered one because at the time there was talk on Moparts of a better design, so I was going to wait to see. However, it looks like there is a modified coupler being sold now - but since I have the regular one I am not sure which way I'll go. I still need to get the hoses or adapters to reuse mine before I think about doing the install. On a side note, figured since I was going to make the steering perform better I might as well make it LOOK better too - so I picked up a March billet aluminum steering pump too :ylsuper:

Anyhow, I'll make a thread when I do the install - hoping to have it done by March 1st. Would usually have it done ASAP, but don't have much time on my hand with work, life, moving, and a wedding.....a wedding that the car is part of  :biggrin:
70 Challenger R/T SE - The never-ending project........