Clutch pedal preventing igntion start-ups

[slsc98]

Hello all! 

I did a search and browsed some past threads to see if the answer / solution to what I am experiencing has already been covered but, either I got caught up reading too many other threads; or, I just did poor job of searching.  My guess is the former -- there is just soooo much to LEARN here, my gosh, sometimes my head hurts!     

Anyhoo, I know I have to depress the clutch pedal in order to start my '73 Chally; however, the pedal has always been pretty d*mn finicky about being pressed a-l-l-l-l-l-l the way down (and certainly, I strongly suspect past where the factory originally required).

Well, starting yesterday, we passed finciky and arrived at just plain ridiculous.  It took me a bunch of tries with no fire and even after I reached down and moved the floormat even that 1/64" didn't seem to make a difference. Kept trying and finally, ignition and the always instantaneous and reliable "vroom!"

Now today, I noticed that when I turn the ignition key and still get nothing as far as ignition, let alone the engine turning over, the "on/off" backlight on the after-market radio is coming on so, I have every reason to believe I am getting electrical current ("juice") but, that some wire or switch activated by the clutch being depressed is simply not being engaged / activated.  (Even though I am depressing the clutch pedal down as far asit is mechanically / physically able to be pushed!)

Any insight much appreciated!

Eventually, i need to diagnose why my cigarette lighter seems to have no power even though the fuses, etc. seem to be okay so, perhaps I am just at the point where I need to start trouble-shooting the whole electrical system.   Whoopee (not)!

[67vertman]

Is your NSS working correctly, and or adjusted right?  You can run a ground to the starter relay to bypass the NSS, to eleminate the switch.

[anlauto]

There are two wires on the bottom of your starter relay, one yellow and one green. The green one goes into your car directly to the clutch pedal safety switch. When you depress your clutch pedal you're creating a ground circuit allowing the starter relay to work. Most likely your switch is NFG. You can simply ground the green wire at the relay or in the car at the switch and the car will start every time....

However WARNING : The car will now start every time meaning it will also start in gear and move forward/backward as the engine turns over.

[Jamiez]

Here is a picture of the green wire and the clutch safety switch (the black thing on the pedal)

[dodj]

Is your NSS working correctly, and or adjusted right?  You can run a ground to the starter relay to bypass the NSS, to eleminate the switch.

Manuals don't have an NSS  They have a ridiculously expensive CSS 
Still good advice, either adjusted poorly or pooched.

[67vertman]

Manuals don't have an NSS  They have a ridiculously expensive CSS 
Still good advice, either adjusted poorly or pooched.

   Your right Scott.  and to think, i need to add one to my auto to manual upgrade. 

[slsc98]

Oh man, thanks guys.  (Dangggg, a picture REALLY IS worth a thousand words ;-)

Hmmm, fact this anomaly started almost immmediately (as in 5 to 6 start-ups) *after* I did two different things makes me suspect perhaps I disturbed the switch / wire / conection, somehow?

First, I got up under there and gerry-rigged a light hardware spring to substitute for the original over-center spring I removed, after I replaced the worn clutch with a McLeoad diaphragm. (Separate thread but, that spring ensures the clutch pedal is pulled all the way back up into it's fullest "up" position, thereby ensuring the throwout bearing is disengaged when I'm in gear and cruisng, etc.) But, I had a number of starts after that without any problems so, hmmm. . .

Secondy, I detailed the car before the winter freeze hits here and, I did spray some WD-40 on the hinges of the emergency brake pedal (NOT the cable itself or anything) and, I am wondering if any of that somehow affected the clutch pedal CSS connection.

With the weather-folks calling for a high of 25^F this Tues, getting up under there and checking the situation out, comparing it to the pic will be my first order of business.  Hopefully, it will be warm enough (back to 'normal' mid-40's) next weekend.

Thanks again; and, fingers crossed here in Southern Maryland!

Edit #1: PS (I started to sedn a PM but then I thought, "What the h*ll?") -

'Mornin' Jamiez! Just wanted to send you a real heartfelt "Thank YOU" for snapping and posting that awesome photograph to help me out.

Its bad enough I am still "wading in and only up to my toes" in experience at the moment but, not having a garage and having to store my baby 1/2 an hour away from where we eat, sleep and pray is a real buster when it comes to tinkering, resolving minor issues, etc.

So, thanks again. Thanks to your pic, when I AM able to get up under there, I will be able to save LOTS of time.

Edit #2:  Hmmm, knowing I may be looking for a CSS (stands for "Clutch Safety Switch", is that correct?) and not a NSS (I assume stands for "neutral safety switch", yes?), I did som,e more seatrching and came across a LOT including this:

Topic: Clutch safety switch. Other options other than "E Body correct" part?
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=75019.msg764583#msg764583

which included this lil' tidbit (amongst others): "

you can use a simple brake light switch at the top of the pedal travel , you do not have to push the pedal far to beat the switch but you do have to push the pedal

"

Obviously, my preference is that my problem can be traced to my css and I (hopefully) don't have to replace it, just ensure I have a good connection but, I found the preceding interesting, "just in case" . . .

Wow, soooo much knowledge here, thanks to you alll!

[mopar jack]

When I restore my 4 speed road runner I am going to run the safety switch through the brake switch. This will give you some protection from having the car start in gear and taking off and becoming dangerous. The advantage will be to not use the clutch which loads the thrust bearing on the crank during cold starts with no oil pressure.

[Changin Gears]

When I restore my 4 speed road runner I am going to run the safety switch through the brake switch. This will give you some protection from having the car start in gear and taking off and becoming dangerous. The advantage will be to not use the clutch which loads the thrust bearing on the crank during cold starts with no oil pressure.

The switch on the brakes switches 12v, while the switch on the clutch switches ground.

[Jamiez]

Edit #1: PS (I started to sedn a PM but then I thought, "What the h*ll?") -

'Mornin' Jamiez! Just wanted to send you a real heartfelt "Thank YOU" for snapping and posting that awesome photograph to help me out.

Its bad enough I am still "wading in and only up to my toes" in experience at the moment but, not having a garage and having to store my baby 1/2 an hour away from where we eat, sleep and pray is a real buster when it comes to tinkering, resolving minor issues, etc.

So, thanks again. Thanks to your pic, when I AM able to get up under there, I will be able to save LOTS of time.

Edit #2:  Hmmm, knowing I may be looking for a CSS (stands for "Clutch Safety Switch", is that correct?) and not a NSS (I assume stands for "neutral safety switch", yes?), I did som,e more seatrching and came across a LOT including this:

Topic: Clutch safety switch. Other options other than "E Body correct" part?
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=75019.msg764583#msg764583

which included this lil' tidbit (amongst others): ""

Obviously, my preference is that my problem can be traced to my css and I (hopefully) don't have to replace it, just ensure I have a good connection but, I found the preceding interesting, "just in case" . . .

Wow, soooo much knowledge here, thanks to you alll!

No problem my car is in my attached garage, so even when it's single digits it's usually not too bad to run out there and snap a picture.  Working out there for a few hours is a whole other story....

The 1974 Factory Service Manual (FSM) refers to the CSS as the "Clutch Starter Switch" and the NSS as the "Neutral Safety Switch".  Not exactly sure why the difference in naming but that's how the manual shows it.

I checked on eBay and they seem to be pretty expensive.  You might want to send Slotts a PM and see if he rebuilds them or knows someone who does.

[Grec]

The clutch switch is hard to find on ebay, but it's possible. I scored one for $125 shipped. But I looked for a loooong time.

It looks like Brewers will sell you a refurbished one if you give them your old one. Only $140. That's a pretty good deal, I think.

http://www.brewersperformance.com/products.asp?cat=125