engine color?

[JoeGrapes]

Not sure if this is the right section for this question but can anybody tell me what color the engine for a 70 Gran Coupe N code 383 is suppose to be? Not sure if it should be orange of turquoise. I believe all the high performance Cuda engines were orange and the standard Chrysler engines were turquoise but the Gran Coupe falls in between.  They made both 330 and 335 horse engines but the code for the car doesn't  tell which.

[70RAG383]

If yours is the 335HP then it should be orange.

[Cuda Cody]

N code is the key.  It's orange.

[EB3-GranCoupe]

I respectfully disagree.  I had a 383 N-code Gran Coupe, and it was turquoise.  It had the same cam as the 383-2bbl, and not the HP cam in the Magnum motor, even though they were both N codes.  That is why they are only 330hp.

[Cuda Cody]

Well, learn something new.  I thought the L code 383-2 was turquoise and the N code 383-4 was orange.

I respectfully disagree.  I had a 383 N-code Gran Coupe, and it was turquoise.  It had the same cam as the 383-2bbl, and not the HP cam in the Magnum motor, even though they were both N codes.  That is why they are only 330hp.

[EB3-GranCoupe]

Not all N-codes were created equal!  the cam spec seems to be the key.  The Orange 383's (335hp) got the same came as the 440 magnums, and the Turq 383's (330hp) got the same cam as the 383-2bbl's.  i have a spec book that explains the difference.  I'll see if i can dig it up when i get home and post a pic of the chart.

[MEK-Dangerfield]

Doesn't the year of the engine also come into play?

[cjm]

I also believe that the 335 HP(orange) had a Holley Carb. The 330 HP(torq)  had an AVS.. I researched this a while back. I think the changover happened during 1970 models with mixed results.....

[JoeGrapes]

My Gran Coupe was built in Sept of 69 and when I took the engine out to rebuild it, it was covered in dirt and oil so I don't remember what color it was so I painted it orange. Shortly after I came across a 440 out of a 70 Charger that was to good a deal to pass up so I built that engine the way I wanted but this time I painted it black because I didn't like the look of the orange engine with the orange body. Since I want to take the engine out to replace the headers and do some trans work I'm going to paint it turquoise so It will look better in the engine bay. I was pretty sure that all the 335 hp engines were painted orange for the Cuda models and since the Gran Coupe was not the performance model it got the 330 hp engine. But for some reason the factory used the same N code for both engines.  Thanks for the help all.

[highberg]

Check the engine right side front of head under distributor. It will give you a letter like F for 1970 followed by 383. Below will be the build date. Look for any letters below that. It should say HP or R. HP is orange R is turquois.

[EB3-GranCoupe]

Here are the specs (Page 7A): (Barry's site has them already scanned in!!   )

http://www.hamtramck-historical.com/ama/1970AutomobileManufacturersAssociation-01.shtml

Everything you ever wanted to know about specifications!!

[JoeGrapes]

Hey thanks for the spec sheets EB3. They're really interesting and helpful. Since the original motor is stored in the back of my shed it will take me some time to get back there and check the number.

[dusty]

I respectfully disagree.  I had a 383 N-code Gran Coupe, and it was turquoise.  It had the same cam as the 383-2bbl, and not the HP cam in the Magnum motor, even though they were both N codes.  That is why they are only 330hp.

I disagree. If the N code engine came with a Holley on the BCS it was orange. 

Despite what the AMA literature says over there at H-H.com, there are a lot of other sources that say the cams were no different *at all*. For anyone that wishes to research more here is the now infamous Moparts thread broaching this issue and one post from Hemi71 makes it interesting.

"
   
Re: How many N code BH27 Barracudas built [Re: ebodyseast]
      #4327934 - Thu Apr 03 2008 04:52 PM    

I pulled out my 70 parts manual myself...looked to see what the difference was between a 330HP 383 and a 335HP 383 in model year 1970.

The book lists a piston for a 2 bbl motor, a .020 O/S piston for a 2 bbl motor, and a piston for a 4 bbl motor. Note no different pistons for the 4bbl motors in 1970. They also list special "low compression" pistons for export..no model year specified. BTW, compression on the 383 in 1970 was 9.7 to 1, not 10.5 to 1. Even in 1968, the 383 HP engine had 10 to 1 comp, not 10.5 to 1.The owners manual on a 70 B'cuda states 9.7 to 1 for the 4bbl, 8.5 to 1 for the 2bbl 383, and also there is no differentiation between a 330HP engine and a 335HP engine. They only list a 383 2bbl and a 383 4bbl in the owners manual.

The cams have what looks like two listings...a 4 bbl cam with a .05 raised ring, and a 4bbl cam with out raised ring. Maybe someone can check in as to what this "raised ring" reference means?

As has been stated, the carbs are pretty specific to options, etc..on whether you got a Holley or a Carter. No mention of any 383 335hp or 330HP anywhere. No mention of a 383 4bbl NON-hi performance version engine there. Could a carb difference make a 5 HP difference? YES!

I looked thru the factory service manual to see if there was any different cam specs listed for the 383 4 bbl in 1970. The cam specs only show a 4bbl version, and a 2 bbl version. NO mention of any different cam specs for 4 bbl engines. One set of specs for 2bbl versions, one set for 4bbl versions.

I looked at the front of the FSM for the VIN decode...what it says is L=383 and N=383HP. Now seeing that there is no reference to any different 383 4bbl motors in either the FSM or parts book, it's obvious that the L or N in the VIN refers to a 383 2 bbl motor as a L code, and the 383 4bbl motor as a N code. So all 4 bbl 383's in 1970 are HP motors.

Why would ma Mopar have a VIN desigination of L equal either a 383 2bbl engine, or a 383 4 bbl engine? Those two engines have MANY external differences, IE...carbs, intake and exhaust manifolds, air cleaners, etc (not to mention the internal differences I show above)..that would cause WAY too much confusion when ordering parts.

So, is there a 335HP and a 330HP 383 in 1970 model year? From what i can see in the parts and service manuals, just a marketing ploy if anything. If i have some time, I'll research the 68 and 69 parts books i have to see if two different versions of a 383 4 bbl engine show up.

I just did a little further research as to heads/valves in 1970 383 4 bbls. looks like there are some differences in valve sizes on 383's in the non-performance car engines ( C bodies )but in the B and E body cars, all the 4bbl valves and heads are the same. Same with valve springs also, there are different versions for performance oriented car lines ( B and E ), and a different spring for the C bodies. No different springs amongst a car line. So, seeing this...there was a different 4 bbl 383, but it was used in the C bodies, and not mixed in like model lines. So there seems to be more here than just marketing, but different 4bbl 383's were not used from what i can see in the same model.

One more thing...what code on a broadcast sheet calls out a 383 4 bbl non-HP motor? E63 = 383 4 bbl HP, and E61 = 383 2bbl. Where is the 383 4 bbl without the HP designation?

I respectfully still have no idea, and no one else does either. I'd wager that the only tick in the box was that no A/C cars and auto transmissions could get the Holley carbs, yet PLENTY of N code four speeds with air got Orange HP engines.

[EB3-GranCoupe]

I disagree. If the N code engine came with a Holley on the BCS it was orange.

I don't think it had to do with the carb, bur rather the cam. From my personal experience, I had an N code Gran Coupe back in the early '80's and it was turquoise.

Cam Spec's [Std versus HP]:
Intake Open (BTC): 18 deg versus 21 deg
Intake Close (ABC): 58 deg versus 67 deg
Intake Duration: 256 deg versus 268 deg
Exhaust Open: (BBC): 66 deg versus 79 deg
Exhaust Close (ATC): 14 deg versus 25 deg
Exhaust Duration: 260 deg versus 284 deg
Lift: 0.425 versus 0.450
Yes, all of the piston specs, etc are the same. However, the spring rates were different on the Magnum Heads too; so i woudl say that it is obvioulsy a 'hotter' cam for the HP motor versus the standard 383.

I know everyone likes the orange color for their engine. Heck, mine is Orange! And maybe a few Orange 383 Magnums escaped from the assmebly line into BH & BP cars back in the day, but i would guess that was the exception, and not the rule.

[dusty]

I don't think it had to do with the carb, bur rather the cam. From my personal experience, I had an N code Gran Coupe back in the early '80's and it was turquoise.

Cam Spec's [Std versus HP]:
Intake Open (BTC): 18 deg versus 21 deg
Intake Close (ABC): 58 deg versus 67 deg
Intake Duration: 256 deg versus 268 deg
Exhaust Open: (BBC): 66 deg versus 79 deg
Exhaust Close (ATC): 14 deg versus 25 deg
Exhaust Duration: 260 deg versus 284 deg
Lift: 0.425 versus 0.450
Yes, all of the piston specs, etc are the same. However, the spring rates were different on the Magnum Heads too; so i woudl say that it is obvioulsy a 'hotter' cam for the HP motor versus the standard 383.

I know everyone likes the orange color for their engine. Heck, mine is Orange! And maybe a few Orange 383 Magnums escaped from the assmebly line into BH & BP cars back in the day, but i would guess that was the exception, and not the rule.

Exactly. I'm currently being sucked dry financially by an N-Code Challenger SE.. I have no idea or build sheet but I tracked the guy down that ordered this car for his daughter new in 1970 and spoke to him and he said it had an orange engine. I actually like the turquoise too.

It still begs the questionsas to why the 4 speed N-Code A/C cars got orange engines and did *any* auto N-Codes get an orange engine.

So with my car lacking the BCS (actually I have mice eaten clippings saved somewhere and may actually go through them) I may have to resort to doing what *my* heart and conscience tells me to do.

Without clear documentation everyone would think I was lying...

The old gentleman ordered my car for his daughter, an N-Code SE. He said it was orange. The girl drove it for two years, wrecked it slightly and had the dealer fix it and she sold to owner 2. A guy..

He had the car and blew the engine drag racing on the street around 1976. He is dead so I can't ask him.

I did ask his best friend who was owner three and helped owner 2 (dead guy) pull the blown 383. He told me three times it was orange.
They put a 440 in it and owner 2 (dead guy) drove it like a raped ape.

I haven't spoken to the third owner in a few years but I can call him again. I doubt he is lying but maybe they all are.

Short of the BCS I may never know...

In any event the answer to the question is either stamped on the block along with the vin or it is for sure on the BCS....

It's crazy that lots of Gran Coupes and Challengers that were manual transmissions got the Orange engines (with A/C)... But I sure can't seem to find  for sure proof that ANY auto N Code A/C cars did....

Personally I believe it all our money and hobby and supposed to be fun, so paint it whatever color you prefer, but on my end I'm thinking Turquoise..

Honestly it's just a few HP anyway..... These cars a rare enough anyway..

Oh but one last thing. There was only ONE cam listed in the factory parts manual. The 383 magnum cam. How did Mopar keep track of it? If you needed a cam there was only one.... It couldn't have been the cam. Mostly likely the carb, although I've seen something about a different configuration in the windage tray.

It's mysterious. *Cue dramatic music*