'70 Challenger Seat Tracks?

[filmsurgeon]

Is it true that the factory used the same inboard seat track for both the driver and passenger side by just flipping one to work on the other side with the outboard track.  I realize this is a topic that has been posted about many times in the past, but I wanted to share some observations about the seat tracks in my '70 Challenger.  After I removed the interior about 2 weeks ago, I disassembled the seats to improve on some poor decisions that were made by the previous owner.  When I turned over the seat bottoms, I observed that the "inboard" seat tracks were the same on both driver and passenger sides, but that one was just flipped 180 degrees.  I suspected that the prior owner didn't have a correct driver/passenger set, so they improvised and used either 2 driver, or 2 passenger inboard seat tracks. I also saw that they had drilled multiple holes in the floor pan for the inboard track.  In addition, they had cut the track studs (that go through the floor pan) shorter because they were too long.  Too long because they didn't install the "spacers" between the seat track and the floor pan.  Also, they didn't use the correct hardware to mount the seat tracks to the floor pan.  I decided that I would buy new repro tracks, but after further research, I realized that maybe I was wrong about the inboards.  After looking at a photo of someone else's '71 Challenger front bucket seats, and talking to a well informed individual, I was settled into believing that the factory did use the same inboard track on both sides.  I decided to dismiss my idea to get a new repros, and would just replace the cut studs with proper length carriage style bolts.  Thanks in advance for your feedback.

The first two photos are of my driver side, and passenger side floor pans (respectively; and lighted from underneath, with no flash to better show the holes).

This third photo is someone else's seats from a '71 Challenger.

4th photo is my seat bottoms (passenger left, driver right).

5th is passenger seat bottom.

6th is driver seat bottom.

7th (left side) and 8th (right side) Repop Seat Tracks that everyone sells for ~ $350.00 for the complete set.

[filmsurgeon]

Can anyone share any insight on this?

[62BT409]

It makes sense to me. And from experience and the little i have to do to the seats. The pictures appear to be that way. You don't know until you try it.

[filmsurgeon]

I feel I have satisfied my concerns/questions regarding the seat track riddle.  I took both inboard tracks off the seat frames and compared closely.  First off, I'm fairly convinced these are not originals (can't find any original part numbers; see attached close-up photo of manufacturer stamp).  However, I believe they are manufactured/assembled the same as the originals.  The individual components look the same for the inboard tracks, and the difference appears to be in the way they are assembled (see attached photos).  Assembly would have been done differently in order to facilitate use on the driver or passenger seat frame.

Regarding the bolts that attach the tracks to the seat frame:  I believe I have (4) correct bolts (out of eight needed).  They have a 7/16" head (with an integrated star lock washer); 5/16-18x3/4.  Would these be readily available at the typical hardware stores, and should they be grade 5, like the track mounting studs?

Regarding cleaning/lubing the tracks: What's the easiest/best way to get these clean for re-lubing?  I'd rather not have to disassemble them if I don't have to.  What's the recommended lube to use, and best method for lubing?  Thanks for your help.

[filmsurgeon]

I thought I'd post about my procedure for removing the studs on my inboard seat tracks (they had been cut by the previous owner, and I need/want to replace them with proper lengths).  With the track clamped to the workbench, I used a rotary tool for: (1) cutting off the remainder of the stud as flush as I could; (2) for grinding down the remaining swaged square neck; (3) for cutting across the flat head of the stud.  Next, I drilled through the center of the stud with a 1/4" bit. Then I used a center punch and hammer at each of the 4 corners.  It took a few mild-medium strength poundings at each corner to get them out, but at least I didn't have pound the crap out of it (risking damage, or distorting the track).  Finding something that will be close enough to the original studs is proving to be challenging.  Certainly, nothing close is available at the typical hardware stores.  I have found some possibilities online (links attached).

http://www.fmwfasteners.com/products/Grade-5-Carriage-Bolts?custcol_dia_inch_tpi=12&custcol_len_inch_bolt=2&custcol_plat_bolt=1#.UTQc7esjppH
http://www.ereplacementparts.com/bolt-51618-11234-short-square-neck-carriage-p-274857.html?gclid=CNKL8oST4LUCFad_QgodkWcA_g
http://www.fastenal.com/web/products/detail.ex?sku=0155067

I don't think I'll find something with the correct size square neck.  I would need something with a neck that is ~ 0.360wide x 0.090 high.  Standard carriage bolts have a much higher neck, but there are some available with a "short" neck.  Although even the short neck options are not as short as the original stud's neck.  I plan on using "push-on" retainer nuts to hold the carriage bolts in place.  Of couse, once the seat mounting nuts are tightened, the carriage bolts won't budge

I am also searching online for the bolts that are used to attach the tracks to the seat frames (5/16-18x3/4 with a 7/16" hex head).  These are also not readily found at hardware stores because of the fact that a 5/16" bolt with a 7/16" hex head is not common.  Commonly, a hex bolt with a 5/16" thread shaft has a 1/2" head.  A 1/2" socket is very difficult to get inside the track's channel to install/remove this size bolt.  I have found something online that I could use (link attached).  They are Grade 5 header bolts.

http://www.carshopinc.com/product_info.php/products_id/39943/976?gclid=CJXJo8Cg4LUCFSHZQgodzBIAuw

That's about it for now.  I'll post again once I receive the hardware.  For now, I just need advice on cleaning/lubing the tracks (i.e. What's the easiest/best way to get these clean for re-lubing?)  I don't need to bead blast them or anything like that.  I just need to get the gunk out and re-lube.  I'd rather not have to disassemble them if I don't have to.  Also, what's the best lube to use, and best method for lubing?  Thanks for your help.

[filmsurgeon]

Looking for advice on cleaning/lubing the tracks (i.e. What's the easiest/best way to get these clean for re-lubing?)  I don't need to bead blast them or anything like that.  I just need to get the gunk out and re-lube.  I'd rather not have to disassemble them if I don't have to, but if disassembly/reassembly is best (and not that difficult), can someone tell me how it's done?  Also, what's the best lube to use, and best method for lubing?  Thanks for your help.

[73EStroker]

I would scrape all the crud off and soak them in Varsol overnight. Then when you go to pull them out shake them in the liquid to loosen all the grease then compressed air. To paint them you need gun wash lacquer thinner for clean up then degreaser before painting. Lacquer thinner is oily believe it or not!

[filmsurgeon]

I would scrape all the crud off and soak them in Varsol overnight. Then when you go to pull them out shake them in the liquid to loosen all the grease then compressed air. To paint them you need gun wash lacquer thinner for clean up then degreaser before painting. Lacquer thinner is oily believe it or not!

Thanks for the advice.  My tracks are actually in very nice condition, and won't really need re-painting.  But their movement is kinda stiff.  That's why I'd like to re-lube them before I install them on the seat frames, and install the seats.  It doesn't look like they are meant to be disassembled (there is a compressed/swaged "stop" stud at each end that prevents the two sliding pieces from coming apart).  If they can't be disassembled for cleaning/lubing, then what's the best way to get them lubed?  It seems simple enough to soak them to loosen the old grease, and blow them out with compressed air to prepare them for re-lubing?  What's the ideal type of lube to use?

[jhaag]

Take them apart. Just bend the "stop" so they will slide apart. Should bend easily with pliers. Don't lose the rollers that are there. Clean and reverse the procedure when put them back together. Use white lithium grease sparingly for lube. Very easy to do and makes a world of difference if these are old with original grease on them.

[filmsurgeon]

Take them apart. Just bend the "stop" so they will slide apart. Should bend easily with pliers. Don't lose the rollers that are there. Clean and reverse the procedure when put them back together. Use white lithium grease sparingly for lube. Very easy to do and makes a world of difference if these are old with original grease on them.

OK.  I still don't understand.  I've attached close-up photos of my tracks for reference.  There doesn't appear to be anything to "bend" in order to separate the two pieces.  The "stop" is a stud that is compressed/swaged in place.  This must have been done after the internals (bearings/clips/rollers) were installed.  Am I missing something?  I don't think so.  Thanks.

[don340-4]

  filmsurgeon; I just finished cleaning & relubing my seat tracks, I know mine are original & they have the same name stamped as yours do, large H looks like hancock, mine have a different date stamp than yours. I just used a couple of cans of carb cleaner with the long tube to flush the old gunk out, then sprayed white lithium in the tracks, now they work like brand new. I didn't take mine apart I was afraid I wouldn't be able to get them back together again. just my

      

[filmsurgeon]

  filmsurgeon; I just finished cleaning & relubing my seat tracks, I know mine are original & they have the same name stamped as yours do, large H looks like hancock, mine have a different date stamp than yours. I just used a couple of cans of carb cleaner with the long tube to flush the old gunk out, then sprayed white lithium in the tracks, now they work like brand new. I didn't take mine apart I was afraid I wouldn't be able to get them back together again. just my

      

Thanks for your feedback.  It's probably the easiest/best way to clean/lube these tracks.  I thought about doing something like spraying with brake cleaner and lubing with sprayed lithium grease.  I just didn't know if taking them apart was an option for more sufficient cleaning/lubing.

[jhaag]

It looks like you have figured out what you want to do. But just to clarify my earlier post I wanted to chime back in, so someone else can use this info. I did mine over a year ago and got one out to refresh my memory. I am no expert but I don't see how the inside tracks are interchangeable. Probably why someone drilled holes in your floor. If you look at the picture below, you can see how it is made to fit the contour of the floor. Higher in the back so the seat sits correctly. If you look at the second picture you can see where you need to bend the end of the slider so you can easily get the track apart. The stop or swedged stud you refer to is not a stop at all and if you just bend the slider it will come aprt easily alowing for easy cleaning, paint and lube. Reassemble and bend the corner of the slider slighly in and you are done. good luck

[filmsurgeon]

It looks like you have figured out what you want to do. But just to clarify my earlier post I wanted to chime back in, so someone else can use this info. I did mine over a year ago and got one out to refresh my memory. I am no expert but I don't see how the inside tracks are interchangeable. Probably why someone drilled holes in your floor. If you look at the picture below, you can see how it is made to fit the contour of the floor. Higher in the back so the seat sits correctly. If you look at the second picture you can see where you need to bend the end of the slider so you can easily get the track apart. The stop or swedged stud you refer to is not a stop at all and if you just bend the slider it will come aprt easily alowing for easy cleaning, paint and lube. Reassemble and bend the corner of the slider slighly in and you are done. good luck

I did not know about (or notice) that little bend in the corner at the end of the slider, which I now understand keeps the track from moving beyond the carriage that holds the bearings and roller. That was the "mystery tip" I needed.  Once I straightened the bend on both sides, I was able to slide the track in order to remove the carriages.  Once the carriages were removed, "BAM", I could separate the track halves. Now I can do a thorough cleaning and lubing.  Thanks for the help.

[filmsurgeon]

I soaked my disassembled seat tracks in degreaser for about 72 hours.  Dissolved all the 40+ year hardened grease, and stripped off nearly all the paint.  I assume the "entire" track halves should be painted black, but what about the carriages for the rollers/bearings?  Should they be painted, and if so, what color and type of paint?  I know the bearings don't get paint, but what about the rollers (what color and type of paint, or should they be un-painted)?  Thanks.