unusual '71 HemiCuda fender tag coding

[Cuda Cody]

Post a photo of any tag you need help with and you will get some very honest answers from a lot of people with decades of experience looking at and evaluating tags.  No reason to play an "if" game if there isn't a tag that hasn't it on it.

Yes there were a lot of mistakes made by the factory, but there are more fake tags then a person would think.  As for special ordering an engine from a previous year, most likely not an option.  We all know some parts were used up from previous years, but now you're talking about ordering a previous year engine that had been changed for the new model year for many reason like emissions laws and things.

[HP_Cuda]

As Cody was eluding to, it's almost statistically impossible this tag is NOT a fake.

The factory having that many errors on one tag is like winning the last Mega Millions lottery and getting struck by lightning at the same time!

 

[Icarus38376]

As Cody was eluding to, it's almost statistically impossible this tag is NOT a fake.

The factory having that many errors on one tag is like winning the last Mega Millions lottery and getting struck by lightning at the same time!

 

Replies like this are why I won't post my tags to this site.  It amazes me the attitiude I find on these forums.  Many here (and the moparts forum) seems to think that unless the tag is exactly they way they PERCEIVE it should be, then it is fake.  And worse, that the person asking for information is a scammer.  Guilty until proven innocent seems to be the norm.  Why don't we take the collective knowledge here and first assume that the tag/code may be correct under certain conditions and try to prove how it is possible instead of impossible.  If anybody knows of a friendly forum where a newbie can ask questions without ridicule or suspiscion please let me know.

[ChallengerHK]

I understand what you're saying, but by and large people get these answers because the odds are heavily in favor of the answers being correct. Also, especially when you get into the high ticket cars, there are lots of scammers trying to prey on the unsuspecting, which engenders a certain amount of suspicion.

[Cuda Cody]

Being offended by the truth does not make you right.

You've been registered on this site for a couples years now and if you've been around many forums at all, you know this is one of the nicest and well mannered groups around.  People here will help with anything.  You posted a question about the validity of a fender tag code so you yourself must have had some doubts about it.  I have seen plenty of real and fake tags.  As a matter of fact the first 440+6 car I bought I was scammed with a fake fender tag.  So I know what it feels like to be on both sides.

If you want some great advice and help whenever you need it, then stick around.  I know I would like to know about your cars and what has brought you here. 

Replies like this are why I won't post my tags to this site.  It amazes me the attitiude I find on these forums.  Many here (and the moparts forum) seems to think that unless the tag is exactly they way they PERCEIVE it should be, then it is fake.  And worse, that the person asking for information is a scammer.  Guilty until proven innocent seems to be the norm.  Why don't we take the collective knowledge here and first assume that the tag/code may be correct under certain conditions and try to prove how it is possible instead of impossible.  If anybody knows of a friendly forum where a newbie can ask questions without ridicule or suspiscion please let me know.

[HP_Cuda]

wishing things were real do not make them so

If you have a problem with statistics then take it up with the numbers

:rebel:Replies like this are why I won't post my tags to this site.  It amazes me the attitiude I find on these forums.  Many here (and the moparts forum) seems to think that unless the tag is exactly they way they PERCEIVE it should be, then it is fake.  And worse, that the person asking for information is a scammer.  Guilty until proven innocent seems to be the norm.  Why don't we take the collective knowledge here and first assume that the tag/code may be correct under certain conditions and try to prove how it is possible instead of impossible.  If anybody knows of a friendly forum where a newbie can ask questions without ridicule or suspiscion please let me know.

[Icarus38376]

wishing things were real do not make them so

If you have a problem with statistics then take it up with the numbers

Thanks for proving my point.

[hemiken]

You can still post up your questions if you like. I will need to see part of what you have to make an educated guess as to what your tag is..... But i am thinking it is a fake because that is one thing they would not get wrong on a tag, pretty crucial part of the codes really.

[anlauto]

The only reason I would suggest it's a factory typo is simple really....

At this assembly plant in 1970 E63 was an "N" code 383 4bbl.

In 1971 E63 switched to "M" code 400 2bbl, and the 383 4bbl became E65.

I don't know which cars received the "M" code 400's, we know it wasn't available in an E Body, but it's quite possible the 400 wasn't a popular option at the Hamtramck plant therefore employees making the fender tags or BCS's would see "N" and as an old habit, stamp the tags with the old familiar E63 

Again, this is all just speculation.

I agree with Cody 1000%, there are a lot of reproduction tags out there, I just think that if this is the only "issue" with this tags, and others are known to exist, this could be a plausible explanation in my opinion.

['Cuda Hunter]

I'm intrigued. 

Icarus,
I would very much like to see the information.
I am definitely not a scammer.

Please post and just remove the vin sequence and the born on date.

[Cuda Cody]

Icarus38376, some of the coolest cars I've seen do not have fender tags.

Real or fake I do think people can put to much emphasis on them at times.  They are one tool of many in documenting a car when it's a rare or special option vehicle.  If you have a fender tag or not, please do not let that change your view on your car.  Share some photos of your car(s) and tell us more about you.  What made you get an ebody?  If you do not have one yet, tell us what ebody you would like and maybe someone here can help you find your dream car.

 

[Surfmichaels]

Since my car is not going I be even close to stock I really want to make a custom tag that simply says "not real" or if I get the design right "FAKE TRANS AM"        Seems like a perfect solution to kill the normal tag conversations.


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[RzeroB]

This whole thing with the 383-4 being coded as E63 thru 1970 and then being recoded as E65 for its last year in 1971 because the newly introduced 400-2 assumed the 383-4's original E63 designation just seems off to me.

So I did some research.

Using my Direct Connection engine "bible" and several available online resources to include: Allpar; MyMopar; Mopar1; and TheMoparShop, I was able to pretty much determine that:

1. The 383-4 330/335 hp used the E63 code thru at least the end of the 1970 model year. Some references are vague as to when the E63 383-4 ceased to be available and give the impression that it was available thru the end of 383 production in 1971. However, with the E65 383-4 arriving in 1971 (see item #2 below) it doesn't really make sense that they would have the E63 383-4 330/335 hp engine AND the E65 383-4 300 hp engine availabe at the same time.
2. For 1971 the 383-4 was derated to 300 hp and given the E65 code. Looks like the compression was decreased from 9.5 to 8.5 and I am assuming that was to meet some emissions standards. Most of the online decoders also associate "Road Runner/Super Bee" to this E65 engine code but I believe that association applies only to the 1971 model year of those lines and that the E65 engine was used throughout all model lines in 1971.
3. The 400 engine was introduced not in 1971 but in 1972 as a replacement for the 383. The 400-2 engine assumed the discontinued 383-4 330/335 hp's code of E63 from 1972-76. The engine code E65 was not used for any 400 engine.
4. The 400-4 engine used the code E-64 and the 400-4HP engine use the code E-68

I know the factory did some screwy things but all this gobbly-gook about switching codes for the final year of 383 production and having 400 engines available in 1971 (in August 71 for the 72 model year yes but for the 71 model year no) and the factory mis-stamping codes just seemed completely counterintuitive to me. The simplest answer is usually the most probable answer (Occam's Razor) and in this case it is that the E63 code is for a 383-4 330/335 hp engine and E65 is for a derated 383-4 300 hp engine.

[hemiken]

RzeroB, looks like what we are going to need now, is anyone who does have an E-body that is coded as being a 71 383i4 barrel, that is both Challenger and `Cuda, to chime in and post up their engine code to cross reference with the information you have just uncovered all in the one place buddy seems like the only way to clear it up is with fender tag facts now

[1ownr]

71 cuda convertible

this is on our fender tag

E65         383 CID 4 barrel V8 300 hp
308         Build Date March 08


judy