Pilot bearing or bushing?

[A110235]

I am getting ready to bolt my over drive 833 4-speed to my 383 and I am unsure if I need a pilot bearing or a pilot bushing for the back of the crank shaft.  The 383 was hooked up to a 727 TF originally.  The FSM talks about replacing the pilot bushing, but I assume that is during service of an engine that originally came with a 4-speed.  I've read through some posts and saw mention of a pilot bearing.  I'm a little confused on which one I need.  What dictates which one I will use?

Kyle

[anlauto]

Chrysler used a bushing, however I personally have heard of it being referred to as a bearing as well over the years. Very confusing I know

[FY1Cuda]

I hope I don't bum you out, but some 383 cranks didn't come drilled for the pilot bushing if they were originally bolted up to a 727.  Hopefully your's has the hole.

[A110235]

Dang FY1, that would really ruin my day!  So looking at this pic, is this what you meant about it being drilled, or am I screwed?


 

So now I am really confused.  I went to the parts store and told them I had a 1985 D150 truck and I needed a pilot bushing.  They gave me a Dorman 690-005.  As you see in the first pic it slides on the input shaft easily, but in the second pic there is no way it is even close to fitting in the hole in the back of the crank.







So then I though that maybe there is a different size bushing from the standard 833 to the OD 833.  But looking at the specs for the one they gave me ('85 truck) was the same specs as one for a '71 Challenger, at least according to what Rock Auto shows on their parts list.   

Inside Diameter :    0.753"
Outside Diameter :    .940"
Length :    .880"

So what do I do now?  Do I need a different bushing, or is the crank not drilled out for a manual trans and I'm hosed? 

Kyle

[Got JOB]

Have you tried searching for a thread on this? I think a Dakota truck or some model used a bearing that fits in the crank hub. Not all cranks are drilled to accept a bushing. I typed in ' dakota pilot bearing ' in the search box and nothing showed up then hit revise search and several topics came up that address you problem. Good luck.

[A110235]

Thanks for the hint Got JOB.  I understand now what is going on.  I had read some 4-speed threads and that is where I saw mention about a input shaft bearing.  I just didn't understand that the bearing was used in cases where the crank wasn't machined for the input shaft bushing.  I know the input shaft will fit into the hole in the crank, now I just need to find out if it is deep enough. 

It looks like I will be buying and installing this:
Part Number: BRG FC69907
Product Line: NAPA Bearings
Attributes:
Clutch Pilot Bearing I.D. : .763"
Clutch Pilot Bearing O.D. : 1.82"
Clutch Pilot Bearing Width : .5765"

... and then possibly grinding down the input shaft.  Thanks for everyone's help!   

Kyle

[FY1Cuda]

You're good to go--everything looks right.  Be very careful tapping the bushing in--they're very soft.  We put a little ding on the edge of it without knowing it, and then we struggled for over an hour to seat the trannie.  Finally took out the trans and saw the problem.

[Chryco Psycho]

I would use the Dakota roller brg , this way the hole in the back of the crank has to be deep enough & is easy to drill but doesn/t have to be centered , the roller brg fits in the torque converter hub in the back of the crank

[A110235]

Thanks for the help so far guys.

I hope this is the same bearing you are talking about Chryco.


I put a thin coat a grease on the machined edge of the bearing and used a socket and BFH to tap it into place.


It felt like I got it seated all the way. 



I do have another question about the hole in the back of the crankshaft.  Check out the pics below.  It is kind of hard holding everything and taking a pick at the same time, but the measurement was actually pretty close.
 
Crank depth


Input shaft length


When I slid the transmission in I couldn't get it to go the last 1/4" to seat it to the bellhousing.  I know that this is frowned upon, but I used the 4 bolts to draw it together.  The 3/8" drive ratchet with hardly any effort did the job.  It wasn't like I had to use a 2' long breaker bar to muscle it in.  But now I am concerned.  Is a 1/16", or possibly less, enough clearance between the end of the input shaft and the bottom of the hole of the crank?  When I got everything all assembled I had my brother turn the crank and I pulled the clutch lever to disengage the clutch plate.  It sounded like the clutch was dragging on the flywheel just slightly, but it didn't sound like metal to metal grinding of the the input shaft to the back of the crank hole.  Should I grind down the input shaft/drill the hole deeper in the crank to be safe, or just roll with it? 

Kyle 

[Chryco Psycho]

if it was able to pull in that easily with a 3/8 ratchet you are fine , it would have gone hard if it bottomed & yes that is the roller brg I was talking about

[slsc98]

It looks like I will be buying and installing this:
Part Number: BRG FC69907
Product Line: NAPA Bearings
Attributes:
Clutch Pilot Bearing I.D. : .763"
Clutch Pilot Bearing O.D. : 1.82"
Clutch Pilot Bearing Width : .5765"
... and then possibly grinding down the input shaft.  Thanks for everyone's help!   
Kyle

Kyle, I hope by the time I post this you have everything back together and running to your satisfaction. I have one question: Where did you go for that bearing, was it NAPA? And, where ever it was, did you get it over the counter or, did you have to internet/mail order it?

Best o' success and, thanks!

[A110235]

Slsc98, yes I did get it at NAPA.  The one by my work had it in stock.  It will be a while yet before I am ready to go for a test drive, but hopefully it all works out.