EFI Delivery - Free Flow Or Not?

News:

  • Home
  • Help
  • Chat
  • Login
  • Register

    • « previous next »
    Pages: [1] 2

    Author Topic: EFI Delivery - Free Flow Or Not?  (Read 3406 times)

    Offline Carlwalski

    • C-C.com Expert
    • ********
    • Posts: 20672
    EFI Delivery - Free Flow Or Not?
    « on: April 17, 2013 - 10:29:15 AM »



    Hey lads, I'm working out what lines, fittings and hose lengths I should buy for my 540 Hemi's EFI fuel pump setup as I have decided to ditch the external setup in favour of an in tank "Phantom Stealth" kit. Tim Banning set my engine up with (what appears to be) a NON free flow system. Aeromotive have 2 styles of kit: free flow and NON free flow.

    The non free system looks MUCH cleaner, easier to run and maintain and I am setup for it. The free flow system on the other hand has more to it and seems maybe overkill for me? Anyhow, will my 700hp Hemi be fine with a non free flow system? The pump etc in the kit is rated to 850hp EFI NA so is not an issue with delivery from the tank, merely the line setup. I'm sure it will be fine but I am not sure on the benefits of a true free flow system.


    Photos  =

     #1 = NON Free Flow System
     #2 =  Free Flow System
     #3 = My 540 Setup from Tim Banning



    As always, thanks for the help and input guys.

    :working:
    « Last Edit: April 17, 2013 - 10:31:24 AM by Carlwalski »
    Logged
    1970 Dodge Challenger R/T
    White, License Plate, 0A-5599
    540ci Aluminium Hemi, F.A.S.T EFI
    TF-727 Gear Vendor OD, Dana 60


    Offline MTS-Challenger

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 118
    • Vanishing Point - "Catch Me If You Can"
    Re: EFI Delivery - Free Flow Or Not?
    « Reply #1 on: April 18, 2013 - 03:27:25 AM »
    700HP...  :clapping:

    You'll need to go with the free flow system (option #2) with 8AN fitting and #8 or 1/2 tube line. Anything less and you'll have problems at wide open throttle under power.
     :thumbsup:
    Logged
    1970 Challenger R/T 440

    Offline Carlwalski

    • C-C.com Expert
    • ********
    • Posts: 20672
    Re: EFI Delivery - Free Flow Or Not?
    « Reply #2 on: April 18, 2013 - 03:33:34 AM »
    Quote from: mttchall on April 18, 2013 - 03:27:25 AM
    700HP...  :clapping:

    You'll need to go with the free flow system (option #2) with 8AN fitting and #8 or 1/2 tube line. Anything less and you'll have problems at wide open throttle under power.
     :thumbsup:

    Thanks for your input. :) In tank "Phantom 340 stealth" kit that Aeromotive sell say it can support up to 850hp NA on EFI and their kit specifically say 6AN through the entire setup? :dunno:




    Logged
    1970 Dodge Challenger R/T
    White, License Plate, 0A-5599
    540ci Aluminium Hemi, F.A.S.T EFI
    TF-727 Gear Vendor OD, Dana 60

    Offline brads70

    • C-C.com Expert
    • ********
    • Posts: 18747
    Re: EFI Delivery - Free Flow Or Not?
    « Reply #3 on: April 18, 2013 - 07:22:54 AM »
    Hi Carl, I plumbed my whole car using hose and fittings from these guys.
    http://www.frozenboost.com/index.php?cPath=219&osCsid=6dd5cc73b412f25e6949c519f71b64d3
    Shipping , price and service was great. I went with the all black so it blends in better? (Just a personal taste thing)  They assemble much easier than the traditional fittings
    Just thought I'd pass it along! :wave:
    Brad
    Logged
    Brad
    1970 Challenger 451stroker/4L60 auto OD
    Barrie,Ontario,Canada
    Proud to own one of the best cars ever made!!!!!

    My restoration thread 
    http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=59072.0
     My handling upgrade post
    http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=73985.0

    Offline Carlwalski

    • C-C.com Expert
    • ********
    • Posts: 20672
    Re: EFI Delivery - Free Flow Or Not?
    « Reply #4 on: April 18, 2013 - 11:23:10 AM »
    Quote from: brads70 on April 18, 2013 - 07:22:54 AM
    Hi Carl, I plumbed my whole car using hose and fittings from these guys.
    http://www.frozenboost.com/index.php?cPath=219&osCsid=6dd5cc73b412f25e6949c519f71b64d3
    Shipping , price and service was great. I went with the all black so it blends in better? (Just a personal taste thing)  They assemble much easier than the traditional fittings
    Just thought I'd pass it along! :wave:
    Brad


    Hi Brad, thanks man but the parts are not the problem, I'm going to get exactly what Aeromotive say on the above diagram (has part #s, quantities bottom right) my issue is which parts to buy for, free flow, or non free flow. The NON free flow looks super clean, easier to install and is what my engine "appears" to be setup for. I guess I'm just seeking some other peoples opinions on what to run.


     :cheers:
    Logged
    1970 Dodge Challenger R/T
    White, License Plate, 0A-5599
    540ci Aluminium Hemi, F.A.S.T EFI
    TF-727 Gear Vendor OD, Dana 60

    Offline ragtopdodge

    • Resident
    • *****
    • Posts: 4065
    Re: EFI Delivery - Free Flow Or Not?
    « Reply #5 on: April 18, 2013 - 12:13:11 PM »
    http://aeromotiveinc.com/tech-help/frequently-asked-questions/faq-efi-regulators/

    Unlike a standard or “dead-head” carb regulator, which controls pressure between itself and the carburetor inlet, a bypass regulator creates and controls pressure between itself and the pump. Therefore, the correct EFI regulator location is after the fuel rail(s) whenever possible, promoting the required fuel pressure, flow volume and velocity through the fuel rail and to the injector inlet, at all times. Most Aeromotive EFI regulators have two inlet ports, one on each side, and one bypass port, on the bottom. Either inlet may be used with a single fuel rail engine, both inlets with a dual fuel rail. Any unused inlet ports must be blocked with the appropriate port plug. The ideal flow-path is: out of the fuel pump, into one end of the rail; out the other end of the rail, into the regulator side port(s); out the regulator bottom port, back to the tank at the top. Dual rail applications should employ a Y-block to split the supply line before entering the rails, then individual lines are run from the opposite end of each rail to each inlet port on the regulator.
    Logged
    '70 318-auto Chally 'vert
    '71 383-auto 'Cuda 'vert (sold)
    06 300c SRT8
    04 2500 QCLB 4x4 HO

    Offline Carlwalski

    • C-C.com Expert
    • ********
    • Posts: 20672
    Re: EFI Delivery - Free Flow Or Not?
    « Reply #6 on: April 18, 2013 - 12:46:33 PM »
    Quote from: ragtopdodge on April 18, 2013 - 12:13:11 PM
    http://aeromotiveinc.com/tech-help/frequently-asked-questions/faq-efi-regulators/

    Unlike a standard or “dead-head” carb regulator, which controls pressure between itself and the carburetor inlet, a bypass regulator creates and controls pressure between itself and the pump. Therefore, the correct EFI regulator location is after the fuel rail(s) whenever possible, promoting the required fuel pressure, flow volume and velocity through the fuel rail and to the injector inlet, at all times. Most Aeromotive EFI regulators have two inlet ports, one on each side, and one bypass port, on the bottom. Either inlet may be used with a single fuel rail engine, both inlets with a dual fuel rail. Any unused inlet ports must be blocked with the appropriate port plug. The ideal flow-path is: out of the fuel pump, into one end of the rail; out the other end of the rail, into the regulator side port(s); out the regulator bottom port, back to the tank at the top. Dual rail applications should employ a Y-block to split the supply line before entering the rails, then individual lines are run from the opposite end of each rail to each inlet port on the regulator.


    Thanks, quite a lot to take in. They say to use it after the rails if at all possible. IS there such a thing is too much fuel (or too much fuel flow)? The thing is, the free flow diagram states: "This is for engines with dual fuel rails (which I have) then says and a TRUE free flow design.

    My engine doesn't have a free flow design, it was shipped to me with a non free flow setup (unless it was just to dyno it). I know it's just one proflex hose but I'm somewhat scared (for a lack of a better word) to change what my pro engine builder setup. If it was free flow, why did he set it up with the non free flow hose, that's why I'm second guessing I think?

    I guess I just want to know that if I do run a free flow system (which seems to be the best) is there any danger in doing so to my engine or whatnot? Also, mttchall mentioned 8an line, both diagrams above say 6AN so I'll just run what they recommend. The free flow design is not as messy as I first thought, quite cool.



    :cheers:
    « Last Edit: April 18, 2013 - 12:48:46 PM by Carlwalski »
    Logged
    1970 Dodge Challenger R/T
    White, License Plate, 0A-5599
    540ci Aluminium Hemi, F.A.S.T EFI
    TF-727 Gear Vendor OD, Dana 60

    Offline ragtopdodge

    • Resident
    • *****
    • Posts: 4065
    Re: EFI Delivery - Free Flow Or Not?
    « Reply #7 on: April 18, 2013 - 01:22:40 PM »
    No danger.  I'm sure FBO just hooked it up that way to easily get it running; that's all.

    I would recommend what Aeromotive recommends.  My $0.02.

    Also, I'm not a fan of mounting regulators on the firewall.  Maybe for a cleaner setup, mount the regulator close to the front of the rails, near where the ignition coil would go.  That would avoid all that extra lines going across the intake manifold.
    Logged
    '70 318-auto Chally 'vert
    '71 383-auto 'Cuda 'vert (sold)
    06 300c SRT8
    04 2500 QCLB 4x4 HO

    Offline ragtopdodge

    • Resident
    • *****
    • Posts: 4065
    Re: EFI Delivery - Free Flow Or Not?
    « Reply #8 on: April 18, 2013 - 01:28:29 PM »



    Logged
    '70 318-auto Chally 'vert
    '71 383-auto 'Cuda 'vert (sold)
    06 300c SRT8
    04 2500 QCLB 4x4 HO

    Offline Strawdawg

    • Resident
    • *****
    • Posts: 2209
      • Vortex Buicks
    Re: EFI Delivery - Free Flow Or Not?
    « Reply #9 on: April 18, 2013 - 04:28:55 PM »
    It seems to be that the so called "free flow" set up is the best choice as already pointed out.  I don't see it being much more difficult to plumb.

    I also think that using -6 line is pushing it.  In theory, it may work, but I think it will make the pump work harder than it needs to which is not good.  You need to flow about 60 gals of fuel per hour without much margin and pushing that much thru a -6 seems unwise to me... :)
    Logged

    Offline ragtopdodge

    • Resident
    • *****
    • Posts: 4065
    Re: EFI Delivery - Free Flow Or Not?
    « Reply #10 on: April 18, 2013 - 05:53:35 PM »
    Quote from: Strawdawg on April 18, 2013 - 04:28:55 PM
    It seems to be that the so called "free flow" set up is the best choice as already pointed out.  I don't see it being much more difficult to plumb.

    I also think that using -6 line is pushing it.  In theory, it may work, but I think it will make the pump work harder than it needs to which is not good.  You need to flow about 60 gals of fuel per hour without much margin and pushing that much thru a -6 seems unwise to me... :)


    I think for the regulator, you can get away with a -6 as this is fuel going back to the fuel tank via the return line.

    Good regulator to get:

    http://aeromotiveinc.com/products-page/regulators/efi-regulators/13129-efi-bypass-regulator/

    it only has -6 inlets and outlets.  Should be plenty for a return.

    « Last Edit: April 18, 2013 - 06:00:43 PM by ragtopdodge »
    Logged
    '70 318-auto Chally 'vert
    '71 383-auto 'Cuda 'vert (sold)
    06 300c SRT8
    04 2500 QCLB 4x4 HO

    Offline Strawdawg

    • Resident
    • *****
    • Posts: 2209
      • Vortex Buicks
    Re: EFI Delivery - Free Flow Or Not?
    « Reply #11 on: April 18, 2013 - 07:50:16 PM »
    yes, I was thinking of the supply line only :)
    Logged

    Offline Carlwalski

    • C-C.com Expert
    • ********
    • Posts: 20672
    Re: EFI Delivery - Free Flow Or Not?
    « Reply #12 on: April 18, 2013 - 08:24:11 PM »


    Thanks guys, much appreciated and ragtop, great idea, I never even thought about putting the regulator around the front intake area to save on line and clean it up, nice! OK, seems as Free flow is definitely the way to go and I agree, not hard to plumb at all. Aeromotive got back to me and said and I quote: "Just plumb according to the Phantom flow-through fuel system diagram here *inserted link of free flow diagram*".

    I guess now I just need to ask and research the 6 or 8AN line. It just doesn't make sense that a company like Aeromotive would have this kit and supply line that would "could" ruin or hurt their own pump? Surely these guys know what they're doing, no?

    Logged
    1970 Dodge Challenger R/T
    White, License Plate, 0A-5599
    540ci Aluminium Hemi, F.A.S.T EFI
    TF-727 Gear Vendor OD, Dana 60

    Offline ragtopdodge

    • Resident
    • *****
    • Posts: 4065
    Re: EFI Delivery - Free Flow Or Not?
    « Reply #13 on: April 18, 2013 - 08:38:45 PM »
    From Aeromotive's literature, it seems they think -6 can support 1000hp.
    Logged
    '70 318-auto Chally 'vert
    '71 383-auto 'Cuda 'vert (sold)
    06 300c SRT8
    04 2500 QCLB 4x4 HO

    Offline Carlwalski

    • C-C.com Expert
    • ********
    • Posts: 20672
    Re: EFI Delivery - Free Flow Or Not?
    « Reply #14 on: April 18, 2013 - 08:41:25 PM »
    Quote from: ragtopdodge on April 18, 2013 - 08:38:45 PM

    From Aeromotive's literature, it seems they think -6 can support 1000hp.


    Quote from: ragtopdodge on April 18, 2013 - 01:22:40 PM

    I would recommend what Aeromotive recommends.  My $0.02.



    So, you'd still go with what they recommend? I'm just emailing them again. They've been very professional and helped answer my questions. I just wanted a few other opinions, must be my OCD lol. You know how it is though, measure 3 times, cut once.


    Logged
    1970 Dodge Challenger R/T
    White, License Plate, 0A-5599
    540ci Aluminium Hemi, F.A.S.T EFI
    TF-727 Gear Vendor OD, Dana 60
    Pages: [1] 2
    « previous next »