Author Topic: Overheating/Radiator ?  (Read 1026 times)

Offline challengerx

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Overheating/Radiator ?
« on: May 31, 2013 - 05:01:04 PM »
My engine is a 416 aluminum head making about 500 horsepower that I am having problems keeping cool. The radiator is an Affco that i bought years before I finished the car from mancini and measures as a 24 inch that is 2 1/4 core according to the website using their shroud and a puller electric fan and a high volume water pump. I guess I am looking for opinions on a new radiator or if this rad should be enough and something else is going on. It hit low 90s today and went to around 220 before I shut it off. I was looking at the Champion 3 or 4 core 26inch as my car came originally with a 26. Thanks




Offline cudabob496

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Re: Overheating/Radiator ?
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2013 - 05:02:54 PM »
is your rad aluminum?
what kinda water pump? (elec or mech)?
« Last Edit: May 31, 2013 - 05:41:12 PM by cudabob496 »
72 Cuda, owned 25 years. 496, with ported Stage VI heads, .625 in solid roller, 254/258 at .050, 3500 stall, 3.91 rear. 850 Holley DP, Reverse manual valve body.

1999 Trans Am, LS1, heads, cam, headers, stall, etc! Love to surprise the rice rockets with this one. They seem so confident, then it's "what the heck just happened?"

2011 Kawasaki Z1000

Offline burdar

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Re: Overheating/Radiator ?
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2013 - 06:21:44 PM »
I've heard alot lately that most of the electric fans on the market aren't enough to cool these cars.  Maybe look into the Mercedes fan upgrade.

Offline cudabob496

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Re: Overheating/Radiator ?
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2013 - 06:27:14 PM »
I have this puller fan on my big block, fitted inside a Mopar
shroud, but I have an aluminum radiator, which is a must
for cooling a high output engine, or a moderate engine
where it gets really hot outside. Because my engine compartment
is well ventilated (lots of hood vents), this fan does not need to be on, except at stop
lights. (in other words, when the car is moving there is enough air flowing
through the rad to keep temp under 200 degrees)When temp get near 200 degrees, I just flip a switch and turn
on the fan. Once I leave the stop light, I flip it off. Also put a 5 inch spoiler on the front of the car,
which forces more air through radiator.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-381008-3/overview/

I don't like the below aluminum shrouds because they block a lot of air flow through the radiator
when cruising with the fan off.


http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-381008/overview/
« Last Edit: May 31, 2013 - 08:48:05 PM by cudabob496 »
72 Cuda, owned 25 years. 496, with ported Stage VI heads, .625 in solid roller, 254/258 at .050, 3500 stall, 3.91 rear. 850 Holley DP, Reverse manual valve body.

1999 Trans Am, LS1, heads, cam, headers, stall, etc! Love to surprise the rice rockets with this one. They seem so confident, then it's "what the heck just happened?"

2011 Kawasaki Z1000

Offline challengerx

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Re: Overheating/Radiator ?
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2013 - 08:58:54 PM »
Yes it is an aluminum radiator

Offline challengerx

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Re: Overheating/Radiator ?
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2013 - 09:04:40 PM »
Mechanical water pump and that is the same type of shroud that I have

Offline ireland383

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Re: Overheating/Radiator ?
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2013 - 09:29:44 PM »
Possible air pockets in the system?
1971 Plymouth Barracuda

Offline moparmaniac59

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Re: Overheating/Radiator ?
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2013 - 10:18:29 PM »
How close to the radiator is the fan? With some non-factory set ups, sometimes the fan needs to have a spacer to bring the fan within 1-2 inches of the radiator. Too far away, and it doesn't pull air properly across the radiator. Have you ever taken the radiator cap off (at start-up, not when it's hot) and looked to see how good the flow is thru the radiator? This will give you some sort of idea of how well the water pump is working & also if the system has restrictions such as clogged radiator or blocked passages. Closing gaps on the fan shroud can help as well. A foam strip with adhesive back works well. Has the block ever been flushed? A big 26" 4-core should do the trick. That's what I have with my 543 and it keeps it plenty cool, but like Cudabob, my car can get hot if it's 95 degrees outside and I get stuck in a traffic jam not moving, so I too have a switched electric fan that I cut in should I get stuck in a traffic jam and this setup works well on my car. How's the thermostat? New/old? How about the hoses? An old hose can collapse under load. Just a few things you might want to check out!  :2thumbs:

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Offline challengerx

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Re: Overheating/Radiator ?
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2013 - 10:20:40 PM »
Well I have been looking a little more and found a bunch of brown sludge like gunk around the inside of the cap and neck of radiator. Last year I blew the motor up with only a couple miles on it, maybe some crap is lodged. I still think the rad is to small, here are some pics. Thanks  oh and everything is new.

Offline moparmaniac59

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Re: Overheating/Radiator ?
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2013 - 10:35:49 PM »
I mis-understood. I see you don't have a mechanical fan. Only electric. Personally, I think that may be the problem and I agree that the shroud blocks a lot of air flow across the radiator. I don't have any experience using only an electric fan. Do you have the specifications on the fan as far as CFM? I know there is a basic formula for how much CFM fan you need based on engine HP. Maybe someone can post it. Aside from checking the other stuff (like brown sludge), I'd be looking real hard at the fan specifications.


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Offline cudabob496

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Re: Overheating/Radiator ?
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2013 - 11:10:47 PM »
Well I have been looking a little more and found a bunch of brown sludge like gunk around the inside of the cap and neck of radiator. Last year I blew the motor up with only a couple miles on it, maybe some crap is lodged. I still think the rad is to small, here are some pics. Thanks  oh and everything is new.

Might try pulling the aluminum shroud off, and see if it runs cooler.
72 Cuda, owned 25 years. 496, with ported Stage VI heads, .625 in solid roller, 254/258 at .050, 3500 stall, 3.91 rear. 850 Holley DP, Reverse manual valve body.

1999 Trans Am, LS1, heads, cam, headers, stall, etc! Love to surprise the rice rockets with this one. They seem so confident, then it's "what the heck just happened?"

2011 Kawasaki Z1000

Offline brads70

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Re: Overheating/Radiator ?
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2013 - 09:03:20 AM »
I notice your using aftermarket pulley's, how do they  compare in size/diameter to a stock set up? :dunno:
Did you check the coolant flow with the rad cap off?
I am using an Allstar aluminum rad 24" and a Chevy HHR electric fan and it cools just fine.  (also  a bottle of purple ice and water wetter in the coolant)
Brad
1970 Challenger 451stroker/4L60 auto OD
Barrie,Ontario,Canada
Proud to own one of the best cars ever made!!!!!

My restoration thread 
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=59072.0
 My handling upgrade post
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=73985.0

Offline Strawdawg

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Re: Overheating/Radiator ?
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2013 - 09:39:12 AM »
For normal driving, the engine is just loafing along and not making much heat so the radiator size is not too crucial.  It becomes crucial when the engine is asked to do some work and starts generating a lot of heat.

That style of shroud is very inefficient and does not let much air get pulled thru the entire core so the radiator is effectively much smaller than the actual core area would suggest.

Next, we find that many aftermarket electric fans are vastly inferior to the factory mechanical fan.  Some factory electric fans like the HHR, the Lincoln, etc. do pull a lot more air than do many of the aftermarket fans unless one has a high dollar fan like a Spal.

Then, as Brad suggested, some aftermarket pulley sets that use underdrive pulleys may not move enough water.

And finally, there have been discussions here about certain aftermarket water pumps and/or housings (depending upon which thread you believe) that don't flow properly and overheating occurs.

If you start the engine and let it idle on a hot day, does it get hot?

Or, does it get hot when cruising around and then hit stop and go traffic?

Or does it get hot after a few wot bursts and then you slow down/get into stop and go traffic?

Offline cudabob496

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Re: Overheating/Radiator ?
« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2013 - 12:36:58 AM »
when I'm at a stop, I bump it into neutral, and have idle at 1400.
That keeps the water pump churning better, and keeps my alternator
putting out more amps.
72 Cuda, owned 25 years. 496, with ported Stage VI heads, .625 in solid roller, 254/258 at .050, 3500 stall, 3.91 rear. 850 Holley DP, Reverse manual valve body.

1999 Trans Am, LS1, heads, cam, headers, stall, etc! Love to surprise the rice rockets with this one. They seem so confident, then it's "what the heck just happened?"

2011 Kawasaki Z1000