Author Topic: not always firing on #1  (Read 9379 times)

Offline john h

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Re: not always firing on #1
« Reply #45 on: June 18, 2013 - 06:51:44 PM »
ah yes, the grounds, make sure the engine is grounded with a big strap, or large copper wire.
im grounded from the battery ro the block and from the coil mount on the intke to the firewall.  The blower motor is also grounded to the firewal strap.
John
73 Cuda
360 Crate motor
FiTech Fuel injection
727 Trans (wishing it had Over Drive)




Offline cudabob496

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Re: not always firing on #1
« Reply #46 on: June 18, 2013 - 07:09:35 PM »
im grounded from the battery ro the block and from the coil mount on the intke to the firewall.  The blower motor is also grounded to the firewal strap.


I think you need a big ground from the block to the body. I have a large copper wire from a water pump bolt to the front frame.
And another from a head to the fire wall. Summit has these in various lengths:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/rfw-gc12/overview/
« Last Edit: June 18, 2013 - 07:12:42 PM by cudabob496 »
72 Cuda, owned 25 years. 496, with ported Stage VI heads, .625 in solid roller, 254/258 at .050, 3500 stall, 3.91 rear. 850 Holley DP, Reverse manual valve body.

1999 Trans Am, LS1, heads, cam, headers, stall, etc! Love to surprise the rice rockets with this one. They seem so confident, then it's "what the heck just happened?"

2011 Kawasaki Z1000

Offline john h

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Re: not always firing on #1
« Reply #47 on: June 18, 2013 - 07:35:00 PM »
I think you need a big ground from the block to the body. I have a large copper wire from a water pump bolt to the front frame.
And another from a head to the fire wall. Summit has these in various lengths:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/rfw-gc12/overview/
  i will relocate my factory firewall strap to the head and add another.
John
73 Cuda
360 Crate motor
FiTech Fuel injection
727 Trans (wishing it had Over Drive)

Offline cudabob496

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Re: not always firing on #1
« Reply #48 on: June 18, 2013 - 07:59:29 PM »
  i will relocate my factory firewall strap to the head and add another.

Can't hurt, as bad grounds can cause all kinds of mysterious gremlins!
72 Cuda, owned 25 years. 496, with ported Stage VI heads, .625 in solid roller, 254/258 at .050, 3500 stall, 3.91 rear. 850 Holley DP, Reverse manual valve body.

1999 Trans Am, LS1, heads, cam, headers, stall, etc! Love to surprise the rice rockets with this one. They seem so confident, then it's "what the heck just happened?"

2011 Kawasaki Z1000

Offline Strawdawg

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Re: not always firing on #1
« Reply #49 on: June 18, 2013 - 09:12:32 PM »
  i will relocate my factory firewall strap to the head and add another.

Just put your meter on volts and put one probe on the block and the other on the firewall while the engine is running.   Be sure you make good contact with both.

If your voltage reads less than 0.2 volts, it is good enuf. Save yourself some effort and time.

Offline john h

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Re: not always firing on #1
« Reply #50 on: June 18, 2013 - 09:44:20 PM »
Just put your meter on volts and put one probe on the block and the other on the firewall while the engine is running.   Be sure you make good contact with both.

If your voltage reads less than 0.2 volts, it is good enuf. Save yourself some effort and time.
good info.  I will try that.
John
73 Cuda
360 Crate motor
FiTech Fuel injection
727 Trans (wishing it had Over Drive)

Offline cudabob496

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Re: not always firing on #1
« Reply #51 on: June 18, 2013 - 10:28:16 PM »
Just put your meter on volts and put one probe on the block and the other on the firewall while the engine is running.   Be sure you make good contact with both.

If your voltage reads less than 0.2 volts, it is good enuf. Save yourself some effort and time.

I don't know, just because you get less than .2 volts, doesn't mean you don't need some hefty ground straps from block to chassie.
Also, conditions requiring better grounds may occur at higher rpms? We're only talking about a $10 strap? Also, good grounding is critical
at starting, when you're battery is drawing mucho amps.

I would think that if every old Mopar had a big ground strap from the engine to the chassie, it might solve
a lot of problems. For instance, the size of the spark plug spark might be affected if the engine is not grounded well.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2013 - 11:30:59 PM by cudabob496 »
72 Cuda, owned 25 years. 496, with ported Stage VI heads, .625 in solid roller, 254/258 at .050, 3500 stall, 3.91 rear. 850 Holley DP, Reverse manual valve body.

1999 Trans Am, LS1, heads, cam, headers, stall, etc! Love to surprise the rice rockets with this one. They seem so confident, then it's "what the heck just happened?"

2011 Kawasaki Z1000

Offline Strawdawg

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Re: not always firing on #1
« Reply #52 on: June 19, 2013 - 02:29:44 AM »
Actually it does. If the voltage drop is minimal, a larger strap will do nothing more. Voltage drop on either side +or reflects the quality of the circuit

Offline cudabob496

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Re: not always firing on #1
« Reply #53 on: June 19, 2013 - 05:14:20 AM »
Actually it does. If the voltage drop is minimal, a larger strap will do nothing more. Voltage drop on either side +or reflects the quality of the circuit

OK. By the way, I did see another article while searching the web that said spark plug intensity can be affected by how well the block is grounded.
72 Cuda, owned 25 years. 496, with ported Stage VI heads, .625 in solid roller, 254/258 at .050, 3500 stall, 3.91 rear. 850 Holley DP, Reverse manual valve body.

1999 Trans Am, LS1, heads, cam, headers, stall, etc! Love to surprise the rice rockets with this one. They seem so confident, then it's "what the heck just happened?"

2011 Kawasaki Z1000

Offline john h

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Re: not always firing on #1
« Reply #54 on: June 19, 2013 - 08:49:05 AM »
Just put your meter on volts and put one probe on the block and the other on the firewall while the engine is running.   Be sure you make good contact with both.

If your voltage reads less than 0.2 volts, it is good enuf. Save yourself some effort and time.

I made sure all my grounds were tight and I checked the block to firewall.  it seemed to not be steady.  at times it was.001 and at times it was .003.  generally settling in at .002.  It can't hurt to add a strap. I pulled the distributor and checked the air gap again.  the first time I checked it it was at .025.  I changed it to .008.  after that it was running worse.  I moved the gap to .016.  now it idols better, but still not great on the odd side.  I checked the timing on the #6 cylinder and I believe it's still good at 12-14* no advance.  I let it warm up well and it continues to build up and pop in the exhaust on the left side.  if used a laser heat gun on the header tubes right near each exhaust port about the same distance away from each tube.  #5 and #7 cylinders were much cooler than the rest.  Here are the numbers  #1 405 #3 488 #5 296 #7 242  #2 443 #4 496 #6 566 #8 529.  I think #1 is firing properly now and 5 and 7 are my issue.  I'm going to pull the header and the plugs check gap and wires again.  I will buy some header wrap right now I'm just using wire heat insulator.

Thanks for sticking with this guys.  I do appreciate all the help and suggestions.
John
John
73 Cuda
360 Crate motor
FiTech Fuel injection
727 Trans (wishing it had Over Drive)

Offline 72cudamaan

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Re: not always firing on #1
« Reply #55 on: June 19, 2013 - 08:49:21 AM »
OK. By the way, I did see another article while searching the web that said spark plug intensity can be affected by how well the block is grounded.

That is true, but as stated, you can only be so grounded. Excess cable is a waste. It is more important
to have good tight connections. Most grounds are lost when oxidation forms inside of the casing of the cable and
creates resistance.
If I cant fix it, it's broke
 
Andy  (phukker whither)

Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: not always firing on #1
« Reply #56 on: June 19, 2013 - 10:02:52 AM »
5/7 can be affected by the brake booster , make sure you are not leaking air into/ from  the booster , although lean should be hotter if the cylinder misfires it would be cooler .

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Offline john h

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Re: not always firing on #1
« Reply #57 on: June 19, 2013 - 12:08:34 PM »
5/7 can be affected by the brake booster , make sure you are not leaking air into/ from  the booster , although lean should be hotter if the cylinder misfires it would be cooler .

I checked around the booster for vacuum leaks and found none externally.  It's connected to a port on the manifold (in the back)  how would I verify leaks internally?
John
73 Cuda
360 Crate motor
FiTech Fuel injection
727 Trans (wishing it had Over Drive)

Offline Strawdawg

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Re: not always firing on #1
« Reply #58 on: June 19, 2013 - 01:24:05 PM »
OK. By the way, I did see another article while searching the web that said spark plug intensity can be affected by how well the block is grounded.

The spark plug is grounded thru the block and the direct electrical path is thru the block to the ground cable from the battery to the block-not the firewall.

Items that are typically grounded to the factory sheet metal like the head lights, regulator, electronics box, etc., normally don't pull very much current and given the short length of wire involved, it does not require a large cable (resistance includes wire diameter, wire composition, wire length, and connection quality)

Given the age of the sheet metal, the firewall may not be as well connected electrically to the fender, etc., as it was originally and it always a good idea to check the voltage drop with a meter but seldom is a ground wire larger in diameter needed.  If it is, it will show up on the meter as a higher voltage which means the current in the circuit is taking an easier path thru the meter because the direct connection is not enuf.

You have to take the time to understand the articles and put them into the context of the perceived problem in order to know if they may apply or not.

On new cars, messing with the factory ground circuitry can sometimes create ground loops which creates errors in the data being sent to the computer and performance may be affected.  Of course, every Honda owner knows you can pick up two tenths by adding a $150 ground kit :D

On older cars, I have seen an error greater than 1 A/F caused in the sensor reading by not adhering strictly to the install instructions with regard to grounding

With the exception of ice cream, one can definitely get too much of a good thing

Offline tman

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Re: not always firing on #1
« Reply #59 on: June 19, 2013 - 01:35:52 PM »
To eliminate brake booster as source of vacuum leak, disconnect hose to brake booster and plug the end of the hose.  If the hose is cracked or punctured, disconnect hose from the intake vacuum source and plug the vacuum fitting.  The latter is probably the best method.  The way its misfiring sounds like plug wire interchanged at the cap.