Mild 440 street rebuild

[challengerjeff]

I just picked up a 440 and 727 trans for $400 this week so I'm starting this thread to post pictures of the rebuild and get advice from the experienced forum members. 

Here's what I got:














I also got some other miscellaneous parts like starter, new plug wires, 2 torque converters, etc...

The engine has been sitting awhile but it turns over by hand.  The block is a 1978 from a motor home, casting number: 4006630-440, date: 6/26/78.  The 727 trans is supposedly from a van but I haven't scraped off the crud to get the casting numbers yet.

Looks like an HEI dizzy was put on by the PO but I'm not sure.  I'm on the fence if it is but it's free so I'll probably go with it.

The headers were included even though I don't think they will fit.  At the very least I can sell them to help fund some Dougs or TTis.  I already have dual 3" exhaust on the stock 318, thanks to the previous owner.   


Now the rebuild plans...  I don't know much about engine building but I've been browsing some of the articles in the archives to get some ideas.  I will probably have a shop do most of it but we'll see.  I only use my Challenger for street cruising and don't plan on any racing.  Here is my short list based on my reading on the site here:

440source super stealth aluminum heads
Lunati 60302 or 60303
Proform 850 carb

I'm still researching the other components and will know more once I start tearing into the engine.

Trans will get the standard rebuild with a manual valve body and proper torque converter based on cam.  And a pan with a drain plug if it doesn't already have one, I get annoyed by pans without drain plugs


I already plan on upgrading to 11.75 rotors this winter (easy since I already have discs up front) and I've got a list of mostly Firm Feel upgrades for the suspension including torsion bars and sway bars.  I've also heard it's a good idea to weld up some things like LCAs, K-Member, steering box support.  A tachometer would be helpful too!

I've got an 8.75 rear end but I don't know the gear ratio.  Will this axle be ok or should I look into a dana 60?  If the 8.75 is good I will probably re-gear it based on the RPM profile of the cam.


Feel free to provide feedback since I'm learning as I go.   

[The Cuda Guy]

Do you plan on rebuilding the short block?  That is a low compression engine you have there.

Don

[challengerjeff]

Do you plan on rebuilding the short block?  That is a low compression engine you have there.

Don

Yes, I want higher compression like 10:1 or so and I want to run pump gas (I don't mind running premium).  Also, I don't know what kind of condition it's in.  It supposedly has only 5k miles but it has been sitting for a while uncovered in a garage.

[The Cuda Guy]

If your going to replace the internals you should seriously consider a stroker kit.  Also consider upgrading to alum heads too.  The stealths are a great low budget option and out flow the stockers.  Just need to get them check out by a machinest, not nessessarly a OOTB head.  The trans you have, depending on the set up you may have to replace the tail section to car vice truck/van one you most likely have.

Don

[challengerjeff]

I'm currently planning on aluminum heads but I was thinking a stroker kit may be overkill for my application.  Anyone with a stroker that mainly drives on the street want to chime in?     I also have a local recommendation for a mopar shop so I'll get their input as well.

I wasn't sure about the 727 tail housing since it looks like the longer one and not the shorter truck/van one??  I'll be rebuilding it so if I need to convert the output shaft and/or tail housing it shouldn't be a problem.

[The Cuda Guy]

Stroker kit will cost just as much as referbishing old parts or going with stock stroke kit ect.  I would recommend going with a 493 or 512 kit (4.15 or 4.25 stroke kit).  Driveability will come down to cam choice and tuning.  If I had to do it over again I would have not got the stroker kit I got (it was on sale very CHEAP) and would have went with the 543 kit.  Budget at the time killed my options ect.  I have a stroker engine built by Moparal and it has a solid roller cam in it and it will be mostly drove on the street and see some strip duties as well.  Pretty soon Neil or Alan will chime in and give you more educated advice than I can give. 

Don       

[challengerjeff]

I could do a stroker kit, as long as it doesn't negatively affect reliability.  I was leaning towards a hydraulic cam so I wouldn't have to adjust it (lash) all the time.  The lunati 60302 or 60303 is what I was looking at, I believe they're both hydraulic flat tappet.  Is there anything wrong with a hydraulic flat tappet?

[The Cuda Guy]

I dont overly know the math of it but it has been said in the past that the strokers are just as if not more reliable then the stock stuff for a number of different of reasons.  I dont know your budget or endstate but I would seriously consider it if your going to up the compression anyways.

Don     

[challengerjeff]

I've just been reading up on some recent threads about strokers and I think I'm convinced.    It's within my future budget so now I'm just deciding on what size.  I'm leaning towards the 4.25 stroke with 7.1 rod length kit from 440source with the super stealth heads.

I'm still curious about the hydraulic cam and will search for some topics on it.

[The Cuda Guy]

I think that is a solid choice for a stroker engine.  If you want to stay on a budget I would recommend the CNC Ported Orig Stealth heads (the heads I have) or standard stealths.  It will keep your costs down from building a super stealth head from the bottom up eg bigger valves, offset rockers, springs ect.  For what you would invest in super stealths you most likely could have some highend Indy heads, I think either of the head choices I recommended will get you exactly what your looking for.  But it's your choice.

Cam you should talk with Chryco Pyscho or Moparal.  Really anything engine wise these guys are the ones I ask.  Shoot them a PM when you get serious about buying parts ect. 

Don 

[challengerjeff]

After reading closer about stealth and super stealth heads, I agree with you that regular stealth is probably better for my application.

I've searched the site for info about hydraulic versus solid lifters and flat tappet versus roller and it seems there is some ambiguity.  I like the low maintenance of the hydraulic lifters but it seems there might be reliability issues and performance issues.  Roller seems better than flat tappet but also quite a bit more expensive especially if I wanted a hydraulic roller cam.  Maybe Chryco and others will offer their latest input

If the lunati 60303 or 60302 hydraulic flat tappet cams are reliable enough then I think that would work best for me.  If roller cams are better, I'm not against spending more but my Challenger doesn't see high RPMs often since I only cruise the streets in it (less than 2000 miles a year).

[Chryco Psycho]

LUNATI vOOdOO cam & Johnson lifters should be fine , are you using adjustable rockers ?

[challengerjeff]

I do not have anything yet, I'm just planning the rebuild, so I can get whatever parts are recommended.  I'll need whatever is not included with the 440source stealth heads and any possible changes to what they include.

After looking at the Lunati catalog (the web site doesn't show nearly all the mopar items), I'm now leaning towards 20230712 hyd roller cam, which I think brads70 ended up using.  That way I won't have to worry about any flat tappet issues.  Would that cam work just as well?

I don't see a price on Johnson lifters web site, how does it compare to Lunati lifters?

Also, I've seen you guys mention the PRW rocker arms so I'm leaning that way.

[Chryco Psycho]

I would buy the lifters elsewhere , I have had problems with Lunati

[challengerjeff]

Current plans based on feedback and site research:

440source stealth heads
440source 512 stroker kit
Lunati hyd roller cam 20230712
Johnson lifters
PRW rocker arms
Smith Brothers push rods

Strange dana 60


The engine came with the edelbrock ch4b intake.  Is there any reason to switch to another, such as the holley sd?
Also, I know the 850 proform carb is good for the 440 but if it's stroked to 512 should I up the carb size to the 950 or 1050?