Transmission Dilemma 6.4 with NAGs or 545RFE

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Offline Lotsapins

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Transmission Dilemma 6.4 with NAGs or 545RFE
« on: September 19, 2013 - 09:07:17 PM »
I bought the bare metal 71 Challenger Conv advertised on MOPARTS and eBay a couple months back. I've decided to take the plunge and do the restomod with a late Hemi conversion. I have just purchased and picked up a 6.4 with a NAGS1 trans from a 2013 Charger SRT. 3700 miles. I plan to leave it stock and morph it into the 71 Chall. So here’s the dilemma.

Most of the builders suggest using a 545RFE Truck transmission in the car. It will be easier and need fewer modules. The only thing on the 545 is the problem with the 1st gear or two. With that I would need a 391 rear for any decent low end. I have a nice set of 3:23 posi that I had slated for this. Also the trans is not known for taking a lot of horsepower. The stock motor is 470 HP and with headers and cold air it will probably push the 500 mark. Not to mention I would have to buy the trans, Converter, starter and all the attaching parts and flywheel. Trans new can be bought for $2000-$4000 depending on what you buy. Also would have to change rear end gears which will cost probably another $500 or so.

Now with the NAGS1, I have to get several modules (  http://www.hotwireauto.com/?page=sales-nag1 ), and the harness will cost about $800 more than the one for the 545. Also it means finding a place to hide 3 more modules and will need to use the factory shifter from a late LX car. Hotwire is positive it works and they have several on the road since 2007. I believe the floor pan mods will be about the same, but the driveshaft will be special and have to be custom made (say around $700). The NAGS has great gearing through all the gears. They use this in the new cars along with 3:08 gears. My 08 Super Bee has this setup in it and it pulls great in all the gears including out of the hole with nice highway overdrive.
I really want the NAGS1 in the car, but the reliable sources tell me otherwise. I have had nothing but great conversations with all the best builders/suppliers including Modern Muscle, Bouchillon and Hotwire. They are all great. I just need some advice from guys that have done the nags to decide if that is the way to go. I can put a stock 71 Challenger together without a problem. I’ve done it for 30 years with great success. This is uncharted waters and cut and make fit ???? that’s like a foreign language.

Any suggestions or help???

Just FYI, The car is going to be built like this…
71 Challenger Conv Sassy Grass Green or B5 Blue (not decided)
Front and rear rubber bumpers, R/T Hood, Quarter scoops, Side stripes (Black) , 71’ Gull wing
TTI Headers and 3”exhaust with tips.
Street Lynx rear suspension
Stock K-Member front suspension with power steering
4 wheel disc brakes of some sort
Wheels and tires undetermined, but looking at 17x8 and 18X9.5 Foose Nitrous 5
White interior and boot (Buckets w/console)
Vintage Air
Replacement dash cluster with newer gauge package.

Thanks, Keith
Thanks , Keith
71 Challenger Conv
Build Thread: http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=97569.0
71' Roadrunner Stock restored 383 4spd
08 Charger SRT8 Super Bee
07 Ram 2500 4WD Cummings




Offline thedodgeboys

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Re: Transmission Dilemma 6.4 with NAGs or 545RFE
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2013 - 09:14:42 PM »
Sounds like a nice build except I would recommend you look at upgrading the front end to Hotchkiss or the Alterktion.

Keep us posted and maybe some pictures as you build her.  :picture:

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Offline 1970GranCoupeConvert

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Re: Transmission Dilemma 6.4 with NAGs or 545RFE
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2013 - 09:17:44 PM »
Hi Kevin,

I am in the process of searching for a 6.4 L with the NAG1 transmission.

Do you by chance have any leads?

I am certain that the NAG1 is the way to go.  I have only seen photos of one on the web however it does not look very big (girth) and it loos to be an easier swap (floor pan sheet metal wise).

Hotwire is the guys I have talked to and they seem to know their stuff.

Make sure you tell them that you wan the cruis control system to work.  They told me that they can make it work and I would hide the Accel/resume, Set/coast switches somewhere.
1970 Plymouth Barracuda Gran Coupe Convertible
First Car (purchased in October 1985)
Drove it throughout high school and early college (still do)
Full Frame off (K frame off) Rotisserie Restoration completed in 1991
Originally (and still is) a Rally Red, Black top with Charcoal/Silver Interior
340 CID with Holley Pro-Jection 4Di
LA 727 GearVendor  Overdrive
390:1 8 3/4 Rear end
Rally Rims (color matched)

Offline Lotsapins

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Re: Transmission Dilemma 6.4 with NAGs or 545RFE
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2013 - 09:44:20 PM »
Sounds like a nice build except I would recommend you look at upgrading the front end to Hotchkiss or the Alterktion.

Keep us posted and maybe some pictures as you build her. 

I don't really want to spend another $4K on the front K-Member. I don't see where the change is worth the cost to me not to mention all the extra work on the steering linkage. I was only doing the street lynx so I could adjust the rear height. Leaf springs don't give you any adjustment. Pretty much where they sit is it. Only advantage that I would like is keeping the factory rear sump pan. The alterkations stuff keeps the rear sump from what I can tell.
I will do pics, but there is nothing to show but a bare body and a engine/trans sitting by it.
Thanks , Keith
71 Challenger Conv
Build Thread: http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=97569.0
71' Roadrunner Stock restored 383 4spd
08 Charger SRT8 Super Bee
07 Ram 2500 4WD Cummings

Offline Lotsapins

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Re: Transmission Dilemma 6.4 with NAGs or 545RFE
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2013 - 10:03:36 PM »

I am in the process of searching for a 6.4 L with the NAG1 transmission.

Do you by chance have any leads?

I put an add on Craigs List wanting a 6.1 or 6.4. Found several 6.1's. A friend sent me a link to one that someone had posted in Michigan. I called, made a deal and met him in Indy with cash.
Thanks , Keith
71 Challenger Conv
Build Thread: http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=97569.0
71' Roadrunner Stock restored 383 4spd
08 Charger SRT8 Super Bee
07 Ram 2500 4WD Cummings

Offline GreenFish

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Re: Transmission Dilemma 6.4 with NAGs or 545RFE
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2013 - 08:01:18 AM »
as far as transmissions go.  Not really sure. I'm using a Tremec behind a 440. I plan to go to a G3 Hemi soon and keep the Tremec.

The reason I'm replying is you mentioned B5 blue.  I love that color.  But have you seen the Leguna Blue on the new Stingray corvettes?  I am in love with that color.  I know , i know its a GM color but who cares, its freaking sweet.  I'd love to throw some of that paint on my cuda.

http://www.autoweek.com/galleryimage/CW/20130207/CARNEWS/207009992/PH/1/3/corvette-colors-laguna-blue-side.jpg

70 cuda, 440, KB pistons, 10.5:1 compression, edlebrock heads,RacerBrown cam, 5-Speed Tremec, Megasquirt EFI

Offline johns cuda shop

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Re: Transmission Dilemma 6.4 with NAGs or 545RFE
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2013 - 11:19:46 AM »
I agree with Scott, I would upgrade the front suspension and take full advantage of improved handling and header ,oil pan clearance.   :2cents:
71 Cuda Gen III Aluminum 426 Hemi T56 6 speed 4.10 8.75 Modified & Lowered RMS coilover suspension Wilwood discs

Offline Lotsapins

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Re: Transmission Dilemma 6.4 with NAGs or 545RFE
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2013 - 01:08:55 PM »
More info found on another forum. Seems the TTI Headers don't work with a trans that has the starter on the pass side like the NAG1 does. Whewww.... now what??? Does anyone here have the NAG1 running in a early mopar???? How did it work out?
Thanks , Keith
71 Challenger Conv
Build Thread: http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=97569.0
71' Roadrunner Stock restored 383 4spd
08 Charger SRT8 Super Bee
07 Ram 2500 4WD Cummings

Offline roadrunninMark

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Re: Transmission Dilemma 6.4 with NAGs or 545RFE
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2013 - 12:32:18 PM »
What about the factory headers?  Can they be modified to make them fit in an older car w/ K frame?  That would save you a lot of cash off the bat.  A member on here has the new hemi w/ NAG fitting in an e body with only modifying slightly area near trans dipstick tube to firewall, no mods to tunnel.  It is under the restomod section.  If you don't mind me asking, can you give a ballpark figure on what you paid for the 6.4/trans/ etc combo?  I would like to get a 6.1 with the NAG.  Did you make sure that didn't come from a flood car?

Mark
« Last Edit: September 22, 2013 - 12:42:47 PM by roadrunninMark »

Offline Lotsapins

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Re: Transmission Dilemma 6.4 with NAGs or 545RFE
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2013 - 01:28:12 PM »
The seller brought it from Detroit to Indy for $300. I picked it up in Indy from St Louis. Total with my gas and his extra $300 was $6500.
That's everything as seen in the pics. It was from a wrecked vehicle. He sells alot of late performance motors including GM and Fords.
He has a relationship with a salvage company. Real square guy. He fended off other offers because he had promised it to me (with no deposit even). The last thing I am worried about in this build would be the engine and trans.

I don't see how the factory headers will clear the K-Member. What I don't get is how they make headers for LX cars with a NAG1 that clear the passenger side mounted starter.  :clueless: How can this be a problem?  :bricks1:  :banghead:
Thanks , Keith
71 Challenger Conv
Build Thread: http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=97569.0
71' Roadrunner Stock restored 383 4spd
08 Charger SRT8 Super Bee
07 Ram 2500 4WD Cummings

Offline Lotsapins

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Re: Transmission Dilemma 6.4 with NAGs or 545RFE
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2013 - 07:28:50 PM »
Gettin ready in the next few weeks to install the 6.4/NAG1 in my `cuda ragtop. Bolting everything together on the k-frame, and we're gonna drop the body over the whole deal...then start cutting/fabbing. Doesn't look like that big a deal[lol]. The driveshaft and stuff are least of my worries.

I have not updated my progress for a while, so here's whats happening. In reply to your cuda ragtop idea, Your in for a world of fun and big problems. If you use the factory K-Member, there are no headers available for that config ( 6.4 with NAG1 and K-member and starter on RS of engine). I have been down that road and you get this  :horse: , If you change to the AlterKtion front end , there are TTI headers and it will fit. Your config also means a mid sump oil pan. That you can get from Milidon, but they don't make the pickup tube for a 6.4. If you get a Charlies oil pan, you can get the mid sump and a pickup tube, but you may suffer some ground clearance. Plus you will need a new dipstick and tube.

Now what I have done is..... Bought the AlterKtion front suspension, Street lynx rear suspension, Charlies rear sump oil pan, and TTI headers and full exhaust with tips, Wilwood disc brakes front and rear with red calipers and drilled/slotted rotors.
 I have a great fabricator in Michigan who is going to mock up everything. I have the car packed with parts and a few that won't fit, but it is going to Michigan on Dec 19th. I will do updates as they come. I am also changing to new gauges with a GPS speedometer for obvious reasons. Here is a pic of 15 boxes of stuff delivered Tues. The UPS guy really hates me about now....
« Last Edit: December 12, 2013 - 07:32:59 PM by Lotsapins »
Thanks , Keith
71 Challenger Conv
Build Thread: http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=97569.0
71' Roadrunner Stock restored 383 4spd
08 Charger SRT8 Super Bee
07 Ram 2500 4WD Cummings

Offline Lotsapins

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Re: Transmission Dilemma 6.4 with NAGs or 545RFE
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2013 - 06:32:24 PM »
Mine is all loaded and ready to go to Michigan to get all mocked up. I will be sending all the modules to Hotwire soon and he is going to send the harness directly to the build. Almost looks like a sleigh full of ...... :cooldancing:
Thanks , Keith
71 Challenger Conv
Build Thread: http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=97569.0
71' Roadrunner Stock restored 383 4spd
08 Charger SRT8 Super Bee
07 Ram 2500 4WD Cummings

Offline hemiken

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Re: Transmission Dilemma 6.4 with NAGs or 545RFE
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2013 - 06:35:15 PM »
 :wow: that is a car load and a half, what colour are you doing your convertible Lotsapins ? :drool: I love the modern power plant cars, seems a to do thing with a convertible in fact. :popcorn:
1970 Barracuda   (O^--^===|===^--^O)
1971 Barracuda   (O O {]{]{]|[}[}[} O O)
1970 Challenger  (O O [======R/T=] O O)
1971 Challenger  (O O ===== ===== O O)
I pay homage to the best Mopars ever built.

Offline Lotsapins

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Re: Transmission Dilemma 6.4 with NAGs or 545RFE
« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2013 - 07:49:25 PM »
:wow: that is a car load and a half, what colour are you doing your convertible Lotsapins ? :drool: I love the modern power plant cars, seems a to do thing with a convertible in fact. :popcorn:

That is a good question that I need to post for opinions. The car is going to be built with White Interior for sure. Also Rubber Bumpers and a 71 Wing. Wheels will be something aftermarket like Foose Knuckle or Nitrous in 18X8 Front 18 x9-10 rear or maybe 20X10 (Not sure what will fit yet). Going with a regular R/T hood, and grille and taillights will be blacked out like a 71 R/T.
Now . Leaning towards Sassy grass green with Black top and white or black stripes (Modified 71 R/T stripes). Convertible top in Black because I will be getting the canvas/cloth type top. I would be afraid of white cloth top. Boot will also be white. Any suggestions.  The car was originally B-5 Blue with blue interior and white top. I don't think the rubber bumpers would look good in blue. but that's also a option.
Thanks , Keith
71 Challenger Conv
Build Thread: http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=97569.0
71' Roadrunner Stock restored 383 4spd
08 Charger SRT8 Super Bee
07 Ram 2500 4WD Cummings

Offline Lotsapins

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Re: Transmission Dilemma 6.4 with NAGs or 545RFE
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2013 - 01:07:04 PM »
Yep... going to Michigan. Found a guy recommended by Chris from Hot Wire. He did a similar project and does some work  in his spare time. He has a great shop and is going to get it all mocked up. I am not much of a fabricator, but I can build a car stock. I found it's better to pay someone who knows what they are doing rather than poke around in the dark. I have all the confidence in the world in him. I will get the car back and disassemble it. Then to the body shop. Hope to see it painted by this summer. Never know because paint prison is always a promise broken. :villagers: I will build the car when it's back from the body shop myself and hopefully all will go well.
Thanks , Keith
71 Challenger Conv
Build Thread: http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=97569.0
71' Roadrunner Stock restored 383 4spd
08 Charger SRT8 Super Bee
07 Ram 2500 4WD Cummings