Has Anyone Else Noticed........?

[Gumby]

You are correct Jamiez. I'm sorry if I overstepped any boundries. Most people don't have the cash to just build a scale model of their dream car just to look at. WoW! wouldn't that be cool? lol. I won my car in a lottery thing, but it is missing many safety features (knobs on the dash come to mind) (a long, long list of issues)  The people that built it left off many parts and it has serious safety issues. But the paint and bodywork is flawless. Once I get it going, I don't intend on showing it at car shows. I will drive it everyday for 7-8 months out of the year. It will be my daily driver because I have wanted a Challenger ever since I was about 9 years old. And now I have one. And I intend on driving it. My dad died at age 62 of brain cancer. That taught me not to take stuff for granted. I will drive it until I die. Enjoy life, buddy. You don't know when your number is up. That's all.

Van Halen - Right Now (Live)

[anlauto]

I think you kind of missed Jamiez point.
Some people enjoy the restoration (stock or modified)
Some people enjoy the competition (racing or showing)
Some people enjoy driving (occasionally or every day)

The point is, we're all in this hobby together for our own reasons, no sense bashing somebody for building a $100K trailer queen...If that's what interests them....
Go ahead and build your car the way you want and drive the wheels off of it...no one is going to bust your chops over your hose clamps...

[Gumby]

Sorry, not trying to bash anyone for what they believe in. I'll shut up now. I'm sorry.

[dutch]

Sorry, not trying to bash anyone for what they believe in. I'll shut up now. I'm sorry.

I love it when you think out loud   

[Jamiez]

I wasn't offended.  I was just trying to bring an alternative point of view to the conversation

I personally like "stock" but I do like to drive my car and it is nice to have some upgrades (shocks for example).  Not to mention I could never afford a complete stock rebuild.

[Gumby]

You did bring an alternative view into the mix. I was remiss in not recognizing the different niche's of the hobby. I apologize to all of those that I offended. I DO realize how much time, effort and money it takes. I'm truly sorry. It takes more than I have right now, anyway. This excerpt is only for Dutch - we need more side marker lights! lol. Just kidding, buddy. lol.

[anlauto]

Takes more than plasticine to offend me !

[GranCuda1970]

I agree they should be driven, not stared at. Maybe both driven so they can be stared at. I drive mine more than anyone around here. I rarely see other classics on the road. As long as it is dry out I will drive!, winter or summer.  I took one of my friends out for a drive the other day and got on it a few times she loved it. Even if it is not a perfect showcar it sounds bad assed, looks bad past 20 feet on the outside, and the more I drive it the better I get at actually getting performance out of her, they have to be properly driven.

[anlauto]

In my opinion, an OE judge would consider the 1973 NOS parts to be more correct and be less of a point deduction then the new (manufactured in 2013) reproduction system.

[anlauto]

Was your Challenger deducted points for the exhaust it was wearing at the time?

I've never been through the OE judging at the Nats so I wouldn't know the criteria.

Back then, as well as today there were dozens, if not hundreds of different manufactures making parts for the new cars being built by Chrysler, Everything from a single bolt to bumper brackets, carburators, seat covers, exhaust, etc...VERY FEW parts were actually manufactuured "BY" Chrysler.
By your definition, 99% of all NOS parts could be condidered "reproduction" parts.

Also by your definition, all parts manufactured and licensed by Chrysler would be considered 100% correct replacement parts.

So there should be no difference in point deduction unless the NOS part has the wrong date code or other details as mentioned.

This train of thought would be a huge relief for the OE crowd because every new reproduction part being made today licensed by Chrysler should be considered a ZERO point deduction. You can use those Chinese manufactured door handles, light lenses, sheet metal, etc...No longer a need to hunt rare NOS fan belts because the new Quanta belts will fit the bill !

[anlauto]

I understand the term "Tier One Supplier"...I worked for Magna International for 18 years, one of the largest Tier One Suppliers in the world.

I can understand how your company that manufactures and supplies decals for new cars can be awarded that title, but I don't understand how that relates to the division of your company that manufactures exhaust systems for 40+ year old cars ? I don't believe you're "supplying" these parts directly to Chrysler, so why would they have any concern for them?

To retain your Tier One status you need to continually goes through quality control inspections etc...Does this apply to your line of classic automobile parts ?


Back on topic....As we said, the introduction of many new "licensed" quality reproduction parts has certainly taken a bite out of the "NOS" market, however even if the demand is down, the prices will remain high because the supply for original 40 year old parts is down.

[YYZ]

For OE judging it really comes down to this question:  is the participant being rewarded more for the achievement of a 100% 'as built' appearance or heroic efforts and/or expenditures on NOS parts?

Ostensibly, it's the first, but I suspect that in practice it's much more the second.

If it is truly to reward the accurate representation of the vehicle as built, when built, then a correct-appearing component should receive a full score.  Irrespective of whether it was made in 1970 or 2013, and irrespective of where and by whom it was made.   Following the same logic for your Challenger's exhaust, the NOS system you replaced would have 3 deductions as compared to your exact reproductions:  1) incorrect date code(s)  2) incorrect appearance (form)  3) incorrect appearance - aged/oxidized surface finish.

Again, I'd suspect that a number of judges would score the NOS system higher, because it 'was harder to do' than phoning up ECS and ordering the exact reproduction.  Even though effort is not what's supposed to be judged....

YMMV

[YYZ]

Paint/chrome may not be penalized because those could be considered 'level-playing-field items'.  In other words, because almost everyone restoring a car will need to paint it and rechrome bumpers & trim, it's harder to justify a standard that would penalize these items.

However, if someone were to magically 'find' a few gallons of original paint as used at Hamtramck back in the day (perhaps spirited away as so many other assembly line parts were), and touted the 'find' on the Internet, Mopar magazines etc, and then announced that it would be used for the ultimate OE restoration; then consciously or subconsciously a judge would probably find a way to score the car higher because of it.

Even if the end result didn't look materially different from the other enamel paint jobs entered for certification.

[JS27N0B]

If a show judge can't tell the difference between an NOS part and a good repro, that's a win for the hobby. I hope the tend continues that never before available parts are being reproduced in this manner.

[resq302]

I honestly think that NOS parts will hold their value and even possibly go up like others have said, once the NOS parts are used, they are no longer NOS.  Once those parts are used up, well, there is certainly a finite number and it will eventually dwindle down to zero.  However, like others have mentioned, I would personally rather have an exact duplicate reproduction that is correct down to the proper date code than an incorrectly date coded part that might be without of specs for the assembly line BUT be an NOS piece.  It all boils down to what you want on your car.  I am 37 yrs old and want my car to be stock appearing yet have some mild modifications that are upgraded for reliability such as electronic ignition, radial tires, modern speakers, etc.  However, I would prefer parts to fix like they were designed from the factory such as ECS' exhaust components.  Nothing irks me more than getting something that is supposedly "stock" or "original" only not to have it fit.  Another example would be the replacement rotors for the factory disc brake systems.  A part should not need to be "massaged" or machined to fit if it is touted to be accurate or original equipment reproduction.