Author Topic: Changing my 72 to 70 ta clone...emax style  (Read 45399 times)

Offline whitewatersky

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Re: howdy..new guy....72 ralley 340 4 speed yellow challenger
« Reply #60 on: April 05, 2016 - 12:15:56 AM »
Hey good project here's mine one piece driver mine was 340/4 speed when born I wish mine was still stock it is fun tho 400/auto/ 323.gotta love the electronic ignition and disk brakes. Dano73




THESE WHEELS LOOK COOL !
« Last Edit: April 05, 2016 - 12:17:36 AM by whitewatersky »
Plum Crazy auto T/A Challenger




Offline Mopar Mitch

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Re: Changing my 72 to 70 ta clone...emax style
« Reply #61 on: April 05, 2016 - 02:39:09 PM »
70 Chall -- T/Anks for the comment.... I suggest that you seek and find whatever sanctioned clubs/events are commonly held in your area for AX'g... might be pylon events, or HSAX/HPDE road course events... various marque clubs (Mustangs, BMWs, Mazdas, Porsche Vettes, etc) usually welcome others to join in with them.

The SB 6-pack complete setup (w/air clnr) weighs 60 pounds (heavy)... as compared to an aluminum mfld 4-bbl setup (w/air clnr) that weighs half... ~30 pounds..... and that's front-end weight that can be removed by using the 4-bbl setup.   When I ran serious SCCA Solo II AX, I ran the lighter weight 4-bbl setup... but, years later, when I've come out just for car shows and social AX/HSAX/HPDE... and everyone asked "...where's the six-pack?"... I decided to put it back on.... and I run the ProMax setup... great tuning... runs perfect!

I've sen the E-Max yellow Chall with both the 4-bbl and 6-bbl setups.

Mpdlawdog -- Do you intend to eventually get involved with AX?... pylon and/or HSAX/HPDE events?  If yes, then while you're building the car, consider all ways to keep the weight reduced; also, consider following a rule book for any club's classes that you may get involved in.
Autocross/road racers go in deeper... and come out harder!

See  MOPAR ACTION MAGAZINE, AUGUST 2006 ISSUE for featured article and details on my autocross T/A.

Offline 70chall440

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Re: Changing my 72 to 70 ta clone...emax style
« Reply #62 on: April 05, 2016 - 03:06:35 PM »
70 Chall -- T/Anks for the comment.... I suggest that you seek and find whatever sanctioned clubs/events are commonly held in your area for AX'g... might be pylon events, or HSAX/HPDE road course events... various marque clubs (Mustangs, BMWs, Mazdas, Porsche Vettes, etc) usually welcome others to join in with them.

The SB 6-pack complete setup (w/air clnr) weighs 60 pounds (heavy)... as compared to an aluminum mfld 4-bbl setup (w/air clnr) that weighs half... ~30 pounds..... and that's front-end weight that can be removed by using the 4-bbl setup.   When I ran serious SCCA Solo II AX, I ran the lighter weight 4-bbl setup... but, years later, when I've come out just for car shows and social AX/HSAX/HPDE... and everyone asked "...where's the six-pack?"... I decided to put it back on.... and I run the ProMax setup... great tuning... runs perfect!

I've sen the E-Max yellow Chall with both the 4-bbl and 6-bbl setups.

Mpdlawdog -- Do you intend to eventually get involved with AX?... pylon and/or HSAX/HPDE events?  If yes, then while you're building the car, consider all ways to keep the weight reduced; also, consider following a rule book for any club's classes that you may get involved in.

Thanks, I intend to investigate it, just have to get off my A$$ and do something.
Current Mopar
70 Challenger RT 440-6 EFI, 73 Cuda 416-6 EFI
05 Hemi Durango, 01 Ram 4x4, 14 Ram 2500 4X4, 10 PCP Challenger 6 spd RT, 01 Viper GTS ACR, 52 B3B w/330 Desoto Hemi, 70 Hemi RR (under const)
Past Mopars
9 x Challengers. AAR Cuda, 4 RR, 2 GTX, 4 Chargers, etc... (too many to list)

Offline Mpdlawdog

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Re: Changing my 72 to 70 ta clone...emax style
« Reply #63 on: April 06, 2016 - 10:33:01 AM »
Id love to have the 6 pack but no way Im spending that much money on that set up!!  I have the 4 barrel set up ready...I got a 69 1/2 b body "six pack look alike" air cleaner :bigsmile:....

Well heck yea mitch Im gonna run this girl!  Im going to get into the same class you are...so maybe when you get the engine done in yours we can go play together!!  Im only like 4 hours from you!!  I have read most of the scca rules regarding the class you are in...I think I can swing that!  Im modeling my car off of yours (remember you gave me the idea to swich my car over to the 70 ;)

As far as weight....I have fiberglass bumpers...t/a hood with no springs....going to split the bumper brackets 1/2 the weight right!  I put the battery in the trunk....I took the heater box out...running the 340.....I didnt go with the racing seats..went with acura rx seats (I like them as far as comfort, not heavy, and they recline)...not sure what else I can do! 

Offline 70chall440

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Re: Changing my 72 to 70 ta clone...emax style
« Reply #64 on: April 06, 2016 - 11:25:03 AM »
Have you stiffened the car up?
Current Mopar
70 Challenger RT 440-6 EFI, 73 Cuda 416-6 EFI
05 Hemi Durango, 01 Ram 4x4, 14 Ram 2500 4X4, 10 PCP Challenger 6 spd RT, 01 Viper GTS ACR, 52 B3B w/330 Desoto Hemi, 70 Hemi RR (under const)
Past Mopars
9 x Challengers. AAR Cuda, 4 RR, 2 GTX, 4 Chargers, etc... (too many to list)

Offline Mpdlawdog

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Re: Changing my 72 to 70 ta clone...emax style
« Reply #65 on: April 06, 2016 - 11:40:34 AM »
Have you stiffened the car up?

1.12 torsion bars....hotchkis subframe connectors.....inner fender braces....lower radiator braces....so far... debating the front torque boxes...I heard the rear boxes cause issues with the hotchkis subframe connectors....
« Last Edit: April 06, 2016 - 12:18:35 PM by Mpdlawdog »

Offline 70chall440

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Re: Changing my 72 to 70 ta clone...emax style
« Reply #66 on: April 06, 2016 - 11:44:33 AM »
Nice! That car should handle very well. I have done all that and more to my Cuda, I know it is exceptionally stiff. I did add the torque boxes as well as a rear end brace in addition to building a new exceptionally rigid lower radiator support and welding in the K frame. I probably went over board but this car is a rolling science experiment.
Current Mopar
70 Challenger RT 440-6 EFI, 73 Cuda 416-6 EFI
05 Hemi Durango, 01 Ram 4x4, 14 Ram 2500 4X4, 10 PCP Challenger 6 spd RT, 01 Viper GTS ACR, 52 B3B w/330 Desoto Hemi, 70 Hemi RR (under const)
Past Mopars
9 x Challengers. AAR Cuda, 4 RR, 2 GTX, 4 Chargers, etc... (too many to list)

Offline Mpdlawdog

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Re: Changing my 72 to 70 ta clone...emax style
« Reply #67 on: April 06, 2016 - 12:14:32 PM »
Nice! That car should handle very well. I have done all that and more to my Cuda, I know it is exceptionally stiff. I did add the torque boxes as well as a rear end brace in addition to building a new exceptionally rigid lower radiator support and welding in the K frame. I probably went over board but this car is a rolling science experiment.


YES THEY ARE!!!  I thought about doing the Kframe but its all painted and perty.....Did you drive the car before doing the Kframe?  I wonder if its worth doing??  Ill probably do the sector support on the steering box....
http://www.firmfeel.com/e_body_mopar_sector_support_kit.html

Ive never driven my car so I cant make comparisons..but, I want to do it "right"....I go off of what everybody says here on the site...which has helped me a bunch!

My wife is from Oak Harbor by the way.....

Offline 70chall440

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Re: Changing my 72 to 70 ta clone...emax style
« Reply #68 on: April 06, 2016 - 12:35:51 PM »
I did drive the car a little before the work, but I was more worried about keeping it running than how it handled. However, I do have a 70 Challenger RT without all of stiffening efforts, so I think I can compare them.
Current Mopar
70 Challenger RT 440-6 EFI, 73 Cuda 416-6 EFI
05 Hemi Durango, 01 Ram 4x4, 14 Ram 2500 4X4, 10 PCP Challenger 6 spd RT, 01 Viper GTS ACR, 52 B3B w/330 Desoto Hemi, 70 Hemi RR (under const)
Past Mopars
9 x Challengers. AAR Cuda, 4 RR, 2 GTX, 4 Chargers, etc... (too many to list)

Offline EB3-GranCoupe

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Re: Changing my 72 to 70 ta clone...emax style
« Reply #69 on: April 12, 2016 - 06:02:45 PM »
Quote
There's lots of Shelbys, Z28, etc which are not actually factory cars.. just clones.... and... WE keep up their images and reputations of their heritage .. while the originals stay under cover and not driven or raced, etc.   Driving/racing the cars is so much more fun!!! instead of just sitting and showing.

Quote
ll heck yea mitch Im gonna run this girl!  Im going to get into the same class you are...so maybe when you get the engine done in yours we can go play together!!  Im only like 4 hours from you!!  I have read most of the scca rules regarding the class you are in...I think I can swing that!

Quote
If yes, then while you're building the car, consider all ways to keep the weight reduced; also, consider following a rule book for any club's classes that you may get involved in.

Mitch, you are the 'Pathfinder' for all of us that want to put our cars on the track!  Thanks for all your sage advice.  Hopefully I can get mine put together and compete with you and Mpdlawdog!

Offline Mopar Mitch

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Re: Changing my 72 to 70 ta clone...emax style
« Reply #70 on: April 13, 2016 - 02:40:04 PM »
EB3 -- T/Anks for your comment... truly, one of the most difficult decisions for any one to make, strategically, is how much to mod their car.   There's lots we can do,,, endlessly doing this, that, and more.. more... but its easy to just mod and spend $$.  I've seen so many racers enter the scene (pylon AX/HSAX), and THEN they discover "rules/classifications" that counter-act to their desires... again, so easy to just keep modding and spending $$.   Welding/re-inforcing etc is great, but.. some clubs "rules" don't allow it, and others do.. within limits.

As an example of "club/classification rules", I suggest to look at the SCCA Solo rule book ... see how they first break up into categories (Stock, Street Prepared, Prepared, Modified .. and some others)... then they further break up the categories into classes.   See what mods are respectfully allowed per category.

Also, you can look at another club's rules -- NASA or MCSCC (www.mcscc.org)... see how they have differing rules/ allowed mods, etc.   Some of these clubs apply "points per modification" to separate your car into different categories (I'm not a fan of "points per mods".. as they can be arbitrary and mis-leading, not equal mods per differnt cars, etc... BUT... as the saying goes -- "When in Rome, you have to do as the Romans do."... in other words, lay by the sanctioned groups/clubs chosen rules... and good luck EVER trying to change any club's rules.

Although I've previously setup my car for national-level competition with the SCCA, E/Street Prepared category, and following those class rules of allowed mods was very straight forward (either "allowed" or not allowed.. no "points per mod") I really enjoyed the end result.. and provbed myself and the car as a top-level competitor (won my region class champioinships repeatedly through the 1980s, and place high at the national finals).   BUT... the SCCA has changed some of the rules... allowing some additional mods... but also allowed certain newer cars to be withe clas (AWD Subaru XRTs? Mitsubishi AWD, etc.. and they are beginning to dominate against the traditional pony cars of E/SP... many ppl are complaining... but.. again.. change is difficult.

SO... I've been looking at the SCCA's new CAM-T (T=traditional older pony cars)... and its a cool class... but.. the rules are almost "anything goes as long as its licensed, insured, street legal (?), and with tires of 200 TW or higher, and no, less than 3000 pounds.... the class is NOT an recognized "national competitive class" by the SCCA, but instead, it welcomes local regions to have the class as part of their wknd events .. and the SCCA has "invited" certain racers to come to the September SCCA SOLO Nats for competition... but without a "national recognition" of the results... the CAM class/category is intended more for fun.. attracting the ProStreet type of builds, etc.  Fact is, a high-level E/SP car will beat out most CAM-T car at every event... with the exception of the highest pro-built CAM-T cars by professional race car companies promoting their businesses.

I'm in the process of rebuilding my Challenger now... and carefully deciding what further mods to make... looking at the different clubs/classes, etc... I've become a club member of the MCSCC (www.mcscc.org) as they're local for me... and they have a hotly contested and very popular HSAX competition "series" for year-end championship awards, etc.   I hope to become a season champ i one of their more popular classes - B/P or S/S (similar to SCCA's E/SP but with more allowed mods)... see their rules, etc on their web-site.   I love the pylon AX m (avg MPH ~45), but I also love the high-speed HSAX/HPDE road course events (avg MPH ~75-80... hitting trpl digit speeds on the long stretches ~100-115...pending different track sites.

I hope to be back "on-track" with my car for the Spring/summer of 2017.

Anyone interested ... I'll be helping as an "HSAX instructor" this Saturday, April 16, 2016, at Blackhawk Farms Raceway, Rockton, IL (just NW of Rockford, IL)... come on out and join the fun!!!    BHF is a 2-mile twisty road course... nice overall site!
Autocross/road racers go in deeper... and come out harder!

See  MOPAR ACTION MAGAZINE, AUGUST 2006 ISSUE for featured article and details on my autocross T/A.

Offline Mpdlawdog

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Re: Changing my 72 to 70 ta clone...emax style
« Reply #71 on: April 13, 2016 - 03:49:24 PM »
If only my car were done!! 

It looks like we would fall into the CAM-T or CAM series...sounds like a basic road/street car set up....allowing a lot of mods....
http://cdn.growassets.net/user_files/scca/downloads/000/013/622/2016-3-25_appendix_B_Classic_American_Muscle.pdf?1458925210

It looks like they lump all the CAM-CAMT-CAMC classes together?? 

I honestly just want to have some fun....I dont have the money to be super "competitive"....Ill be paying off the parts to get this thing running for a while :bigsmile: 

Offline EB3-GranCoupe

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Re: Changing my 72 to 70 ta clone...emax style
« Reply #72 on: April 13, 2016 - 06:24:38 PM »
Quote
If only my car were done!!     

I honestly just want to have some fun....I dont have the money to be super "competitive"....Ill be paying off the parts to get this thing running for a while :bigsmile:   

You are farther along than I am! I have pieces/parts left over from the GC build, and from a previous project that never got going; so with a parts car shell that I got, but never cut up, I plan on keeping it low cost (a friend is giving me a running, slightly built 318 plus a 4-spd that I already have), I have most all the pieces to put it together and get it running.  I just need seats, steering column, pedals, and a roll cage. 

That why I really like Mitch's approach, to find a set of rules that I can work with budget wise, and have fun.  if I get competitive, well that is just a bonus!  I looked at the CAM-T rules, and came to exactly the same conclusion that Mitch saw.  its a great way to get guys (and gals) in the door to club racing that have an already personally modded car. 

This is cool stuff.  Thanks again Mitch for your guidance!  :cheers:

Offline 72rtchallenger

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Re: Changing my 72 to 70 ta clone...emax style
« Reply #73 on: April 21, 2016 - 07:21:12 PM »
Nice work, looks like a great car
72rtchallenger
my challengers restro at http://www.cardomain.com/ride/399010
what happens in the garage
stays in the garage

Offline Mpdlawdog

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Re: Changing my 72 to 70 ta clone...emax style
« Reply #74 on: April 22, 2016 - 08:43:43 PM »
It's been a tough week for me...had to put my retired partner,khan, down....he was 11 but was in great health up until a month ago...occupied my time with the kids and finally spent some time in the garage....the engine bay is ready for primer....and now have all the parts except the carb...going with the hhr fan set up, electric fuel pump and so on...spending money apparently made me feel better one night......


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