Author Topic: 70 Challenger going Plum Crazy  (Read 38384 times)

Offline 70chall440

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Re: 70 Challenger going Plum Crazy
« Reply #90 on: March 18, 2016 - 06:22:03 PM »
very nice, those snap gauges are very useful.
Current Mopar
70 Challenger RT 440-6 EFI, 73 Cuda 416-6 EFI
05 Hemi Durango, 01 Ram 4x4, 14 Ram 2500 4X4, 10 PCP Challenger 6 spd RT, 01 Viper GTS ACR, 52 B3B w/330 Desoto Hemi, 70 Hemi RR (under const)
Past Mopars
9 x Challengers. AAR Cuda, 4 RR, 2 GTX, 4 Chargers, etc... (too many to list)




Offline usraptr

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Re: 70 Challenger going Plum Crazy
« Reply #91 on: March 21, 2016 - 09:42:52 PM »
Very cool.  Those will come in handy.  :2thumbs:
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda.  Matching numbers 440 U Code, 4 speed pistol grip, Rallye dash, AM 8 Track, Shaker hood, 15 inch rallye wheels, Dana 60 4.10, Super Track Pak.  One of 134 - 440 "U" coupes codes built in 1970 and one of 100 - 440 Super Track Paks built in 1970.

Restoration pictures at:  http://spanks4thememory.smugmug.com/Cars/70-Cuda/7240639_M24oi#465274575_2MBqW
(Edited 8-1-17)

"usraptr" = United States raptor - bird of prey = United States Bald Eagle.  FYI, somebody else thought of it first so I had to drop the "O" in raptor.

Offline dakota

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Re: 70 Challenger going Plum Crazy
« Reply #92 on: April 10, 2016 - 08:57:46 PM »
Today was one of those "a bad day working on the car is better than a good day working" as there were a few setbacks.  Nothing terrible... just some learning the hard way.

I had checked the bellhousing alignment more than a year ago which led to ordering some offset pins (0.007 size).   Now that I've got the engine rebuilt and back on the K member, I thought it would be a good idea to check it one more time.   I used a much simpler set up with the dial indicator and ended up finding out I had even more runout to correct, so back to the web for another order (0.014 size).

With the work on the bellhousing stalled, I went back to the third member set up.   When setting the preload on the pinion bearings, I got to the bottom edge of the spec for new bearings (20-30 inch pounds) and thought it would be a "good idea" to snug the nut up 1/8th of turn to get into the middle of the range.  The extra 1/8th turn was enough to hit 50 inch pounds (there were several warnings in the YouTube videos I watched about this, but my definition of a small adjustment wasn't small enough).  Since I was using a crush sleeve, the overshoot means I get to take the third member apart again.  And order more parts.   Maybe I'll try one of those crush sleeve eliminators this time.

All of this was a little frustrating, but it's also good to figure out how to work around the problems.   There will be more.   I'm still having fun.



« Last Edit: April 11, 2016 - 04:30:33 AM by dakota »

Offline Cudakiller70

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Re: 70 Challenger going Plum Crazy
« Reply #93 on: April 11, 2016 - 01:14:52 AM »
Today was one of those "a bad day working on the car is better than a good day working" as there were a few setbacks.  Nothing terrible... just some learning the hard way.

I had checked the bellhousing alignment more than a year ago which led to ordering some offset pins (0.07 size).   Now that I've got the engine rebuilt and back on the K member, I thought it would be a good idea to check it one more time.   I used a much simpler set up with the dial indicator and ended up finding out I had even more runout to correct, so back to the web for another order (0.14 size).

With the work on the bellhousing stalled, I went back to the third member set up.   When setting the preload on the pinion bearings, I got to the bottom edge of the spec for new bearings (20-30 inch pounds) and thought it would be a "good idea" to snug the nut up 1/8th of turn to get into the middle of the range.  The extra 1/8th turn was enough to hit 50 inch pounds (there were several warnings in the YouTube videos I watched about this, but my definition of a small adjustment wasn't small enough).  Since I was using a crush sleeve, the overshoot means I get to take the third member apart again.  And order more parts.   Maybe I'll try one of those crush sleeve eliminators this time.

All of this was a little frustrating, but it's also good to figure out how to work around the problems.   There will be more.   I'm still having fun.
Could you give more info on the simpler method you used to check your run out?
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Offline dakota

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Re: 70 Challenger going Plum Crazy
« Reply #94 on: April 11, 2016 - 04:58:01 AM »
There were 2 main things that I did different, both coming from this article:

http://www.hurst-drivelines.com/files/GM%20Dial%20Indicating%20-%20RobbMC%20instructions%20Revised%206-15-09A.pdf

1.  The first time I did the run out check, I took measurements at the equivalent of 12-3-6-9 on a clock face.   That approach works for getting closer, but you're left having to guess a bit at exactly which direction to shift the bellhousing.   Figuring out the direction to shift first, then figuring out the amount as outlined in this article reduced the guesswork quite a bit.

2.  During my first run, I had centered the magnetic base for the dial indicator on the flywheel, which meant I had to use the extra extension arm that came with the base to get the gauge into a position to minimize how much the pointer was tilted into the bellhousing opening (more tilt means a less accurate measurement).  Setting things up with the added complexity of the extra arm was a major PIA.   With the base slightly off center, I didn't need the extra arm.

One other approach that helped me this time was using an inspection mirror to read the gauge when the dial face was pointed towards the floor.  The alternative was trying to put my head near the floor like I was getting ready to break dance - not a pretty sight.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

One more note:  I edited my post as I was missing a "0" in each of the sizes I listed for the offset pins (0.007, not 0.07).


Offline Cudakiller70

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Re: 70 Challenger going Plum Crazy
« Reply #95 on: April 13, 2016 - 12:33:49 AM »
There were 2 main things that I did different, both coming from this article:

http://www.hurst-drivelines.com/files/GM%20Dial%20Indicating%20-%20RobbMC%20instructions%20Revised%206-15-09A.pdf

1.  The first time I did the run out check, I took measurements at the equivalent of 12-3-6-9 on a clock face.   That approach works for getting closer, but you're left having to guess a bit at exactly which direction to shift the bellhousing.   Figuring out the direction to shift first, then figuring out the amount as outlined in this article reduced the guesswork quite a bit.

2.  During my first run, I had centered the magnetic base for the dial indicator on the flywheel, which meant I had to use the extra extension arm that came with the base to get the gauge into a position to minimize how much the pointer was tilted into the bellhousing opening (more tilt means a less accurate measurement).  Setting things up with the added complexity of the extra arm was a major PIA.   With the base slightly off center, I didn't need the extra arm.

One other approach that helped me this time was using an inspection mirror to read the gauge when the dial face was pointed towards the floor.  The alternative was trying to put my head near the floor like I was getting ready to break dance - not a pretty sight.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

One more note:  I edited my post as I was missing a "0" in each of the sizes I listed for the offset pins (0.007, not 0.07).

Thanks for taking the time to answer. I asked because my car is not original and when the trans gets warm it doesn't like to shift well, especially in and out of reverse. I'm trying to look at the whole picture, but this I will check when I check the clutch and linkages. My 1st Cuda years ago shifted amazingly well. Enjoying your thread. Thanks again!
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The above is just my opinion
Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.
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Offline dakota

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Re: 70 Challenger going Plum Crazy
« Reply #96 on: May 06, 2016 - 06:12:47 AM »
As a matter of fact honey, I DO think the dash frame looks good next to the curtains and the carpet.   I think the powder coater got the color just right to match them.

Offline wantone

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Re: 70 Challenger going Plum Crazy
« Reply #97 on: May 19, 2016 - 11:46:19 AM »
Keep it up Dakota - i'm having a great time watching this unfold.
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Offline dakota

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Re: 70 Challenger going Plum Crazy
« Reply #98 on: August 27, 2016 - 06:26:51 AM »
Man, where has the summer gone?   Great plans for making major progress on the car got shelved by lots of other "life" that was more important.   

Despite the other priorities, I'm continuing to do what I've nicknamed the "Viagara Treatment" to my car:  installing almost every available stiffening product for the chassis and steering.  Past posts have shown the inner fender braces (US Car Tool) and K-member plate addition (Firm Feel).  Most of the time lately has been focused on adding the subframe connectors and torque boxes (both from USC).   I also have a core support stiffener (USC), a sector support bearing (FF), and a Stage 3 upgraded steering box (FF) in boxes to add later.

What follows below is mostly me laughing at myself, but maybe there's a nugget or two for someone just getting started.

The inner fender braces were added by the guy that painted the car.  I did a little bit of work on the K-member, but the first serious amount of welding I took on was installing the subframe connectors.  Learning to weld laying on my back turned out be a bit of adventure.   I ended up going through a couple of rounds of poor welds and then grinding them off, and then rewelding.   The biggest issue was getting a good puddle.  Early on, I mostly made turd piles with no penetration, which only got worse when I tried to add more material along the edges.  Note to self:  there's no way to improve a bad weld by making it bigger.   I was also fighting a problem with an erratic welder wire feed rate that turned out to be a broken liner. The welding got better with practice and a replacement liner.   The main "don't do what I did" advice I'd offer has to do with using a fluted carbide bit on a die grinder to remove the crappy welds.   While a grinding wheel generates the equivalent of metal sawdust, the carbide bits generate really small slivers.  I was working in short sleeves and made the mistake of putting my elbows down into the material I'd shaved off with the carbide bit (did I mention I made a lot of bad welds?).   My wife ended up using tweezers and a magnifying glass to pull the slivers out of my elbows.   There were over 70 in one elbow and about 30 in the other - no serious health issues involved, but it did give her additional reason to question my sanity.  The carbide bits do a nice job on the welds - just be careful with the slivers.

The other mistake involved the heater control cable.  I left it laying across the interior floor while welding on the underside.   Before closing up a burn-through hole, I saw something flickering in the interior.   It turns out the exterior cover of the heater cable had started to burn like a slow moving fuse.  If you're reading this and planning to add subframe connectors, remove EVERYTHING from the interior before you start.   Fortunately, I was able to get a replacement cable from Roseville.

I'll post some more pictures eventually.  I'm trying to finish the application of Rust Bullet on the underside and paint the engine compartment (it wasn't painted when the exterior was done) before it starts to get cold,  which will leave mechanical work for the winter.   My wife has informed me that I'm buying her a remote car starter if all my Challenger pieces block her out of the garage during the winter again.  I've gone from smirking "no way I'm going to have to do that" to "I wonder where I can get a good deal on a remote?".  The race is on.   

Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: 70 Challenger going Plum Crazy
« Reply #99 on: August 27, 2016 - 12:07:00 PM »
Yes summer is gone .... unless you live in Panama
 I port a lot of heads so I am very Familiar with the carbide cuttings , even in my eyes , I have magnets to be very useful for collecting the slivers even getting slivers out of my eyes

Challenger - You`ll wish You Hadn`t

Offline Cudakiller70

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Re: 70 Challenger going Plum Crazy
« Reply #100 on: August 27, 2016 - 12:12:53 PM »
Good stuff dakota
Try long sleeve T shirts, it'll help for slivers and other stuff too. That's all I use when working on the car, keeps grease and dirt off also.
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Offline dakota

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Re: 70 Challenger going Plum Crazy
« Reply #101 on: September 04, 2016 - 07:36:28 AM »
I started work on the addition of the US Cartool radiator core support.   Prep work for this include pulling the front valence, the bumper, the bumper support brackets, the front grill,  the headlight trim, both of the regular headlights to make room for removing the trim between the grill and bumper, and the a/c condenser.   None of this was particularly hard, but it did point out that this addition is best made before the car is painted and assembled (as in, not the way I'm doing it).   The existing core support had an upward bend in the middle and an outward flare on each end (see 1st picture below - sorry about the rotation) which suggests someone might tried to use the core support as a jacking point at some time in the past.   

The USC piece fit reasonably well out of the box.  There was a little trimming needed on the inside corners to get it to fit around the lip on the existing support.  There are 4 tacks welds on the USC support to form the curves.  There was a need to cut through 2 of them (one on each end) to open the piece up a bit so it could fit over the existing support.  The ends had to be cut back about 1/8" to make room for welds.  Other that a breaking a jig saw bit cutting through a weld, all of this was pretty straightforward.

Welding in a more or less seated position instead of on my back was a nice change of pace, but there was an uncomfortable moment when a piece of welding slag burned through the crotch of my pants.  This triggered some "dance" moves that would've made John Travolta proud.

I had sprayed some zinc "weld-thru" primer on the existing and new support before starting to tack them together.  The gas nozzle on my mig seemed to get fouled pretty quickly with what looked like ash from burning the primer.   Maybe this is normal, but I don't remember this happening as much when I was welding on the subframe connectors.

The USC core support definitely adds some stiffness to this part of the car given how much I could flex the original support when I grabbed it for support while standing up.   There was virtually no flexing at all in this area after the USC piece was tacked in place.
   
« Last Edit: September 04, 2016 - 07:41:09 AM by dakota »

Offline dakota

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Re: 70 Challenger going Plum Crazy
« Reply #102 on: October 11, 2016 - 07:03:31 AM »
Back in April, I made a couple of posts about checking the runout on my bellhousing.   This is an update to that information.   The dial indicator used previously had a large (2-1/4") face to it, which made fitting it inside the bellhousing opening a bit of a gymnastics exercise and also made it difficult to get repeatable results.   I came across a smaller (1-1/4") dial indicator on Amazon and decided to buy it and redo the measurements.   This is a situation where size does matter, except this time smaller is better.  The smaller indicator fit easily inside the bellhousing opening once I replaced one of the clamp knobs with a nut on the magnetic stand.   

This is a link to the smaller dial indicator: https://www.amazon.com/T%C3%BCrlen-0-001-Micro-INDICATOR-Carbide/dp/B00MU3BAV8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1476182331&sr=8-1&keywords=mini+dial+indicator

The spec on runout for the bellhousing is 0.005".   Although I thought I had things corrected properly with some 0.007" offset dowels from Robbmc Performance Products (www.robbmcperformance.com), using the smaller dial indicator it appeared I was still out of spec.   I went back to the original dowel pins and remeasured a couple of times which included removing and reattaching the the magnetic base on the flywheel.   The runout was consistently 0.016", so I ordered and installed a set of the 0.014" offset dowels.  The runout is now in the 0.002" range.

This last part may seem a little silly, but hopefully it will help someone avoid a simple but costly (in time) mistake that I made:   there is a right way and a wrong way to insert the Robbmc offset pins.  The end with the split goes towards the bellhousing.  If you put them in the other way, you may get the bellhousing back on with the help of a rubber mallet (ask me how I know) but you will not get the expected correction in runout.

« Last Edit: October 11, 2016 - 07:07:51 AM by dakota »

Offline dakota

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Re: 70 Challenger going Plum Crazy
« Reply #103 on: October 11, 2016 - 07:20:23 AM »
With the questions about the runout resolved, I was able to finally mount the McLeod clutch purchased from Jamie Passon almost 2 years ago.  Tossing out the empty boxes felt REALLY good.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2016 - 07:29:21 AM by dakota »

Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: 70 Challenger going Plum Crazy
« Reply #104 on: October 13, 2016 - 11:19:39 PM »
NIce  3 finger B&B long  :2thumbs:

Challenger - You`ll wish You Hadn`t