Not a happy owner.....no love here! Long story...large file attached

Author Topic: Not a happy owner.....no love here! Long story...large file attached  (Read 2815 times)

Offline Karfever

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 :gripe:  I will give all you guys a long story to listen to, if you choose to share my pain!  I bought this 73 Challenger kinda through Ebay this month. I mean kinda, because I bought it after negociations after the auction had ended without the price meeting the reserve. Now I can tell you that I have owned well over 70 different muscle cars and Corvettes, and am no spring chicken. In fact, I have successfully bought and sold 20 or so cars on ebay, some as high as $35000! I never owned a Mopar, (other than my Ram Hemi truck), and wanted something different. I wanted to stay under 20K on this type of car, wasnt concerened about the number matching stuff, but wanted a good driver with strong cosmetics. So when this 73 came around, it seemed to fit the bill.
Let me tell you about the history;

The owner bought this car as a tired 73 Rallye 340 in late 1998. I dont know the purchase price. The original motor was toast so there was no saving it, so I was told. Through reciepts in my possesion, there was close to $30000.00 put into this car, such as 9500 for paint/body, 3700 for a new 360/380 crate motor, complete suspension rebuild, 727 transmission rebuild, 3:91 posi rebuild, interior (except dash pad which is cracked) new 15x7 rally wheels, tires, Hooker super comp coateed headers with exhaust system, rechrome bumpers, new trim piecies, you get the idea! I even had photos of the body restoration which revealed very little rust or damage.

So, based on this, one would think that buying this car sight unseen would not represent a huge risk. The seller was credible and owns a all original 1970 Road runner, in fact both of these cars have been in magizine articles. Now I have recieved the car and not being a Mopar guy cannot believe that anyone would be happy dricing this thing. For a crate 360 with at least 380 hp, the car is not  'fast' Yes, it sounds mean, idles like sh*t is high reving but seems to be lacking any torque, or at least is not ;crisp' I have talked on the forum about the valve train noise I hear, but have not gotten any answers, maybe it is normal but with a hydralic roller can it should be quiet. The car does not drive/handle anywhere near what a my other GM cars do.

Anyway, enought whining..  :nopity:  I guess my question is, what would you guys do with this car? And also what do you guys feel the real value is for this car?

1. Get rid of it and go on.....

2. Dump sopme more dollars into it with a hope that it can be sorted out

3. Keep it in the garage, ignored and enjoy my other cars...

4. Have a few more beers and laugh at myself!!!

 :banghead:



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Btch n Blue

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Re: Not a happy owner.....no love here! Long story...large file attached
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2005 - 07:33:06 AM »
IMO (or for what it's worth) - there is definately something wrong that needs to be sorted out... was any engine work done to the crate 360, or was it left 'stock'?

Also IMO, the 360's are kinda the lame duck of the Mopar engines... you can pull much more power (for almost the same price) out of a 318 or 340 or move up to a big block (since the car isn't numbers matching) ::)

Just a couple thoughts I had... stick around and enjoy all your cars... we'll just :drool: over the Challenger!! :thumbs:

Offline Karfever

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Re: Not a happy owner.....no love here! Long story...large file attached
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2005 - 07:37:10 AM »
As far as I can determine, not work was done on the crate 360. It only has 3000 miles on it. It was installed as per Mopar reccomendations with a Holley 4150 750cfm and headers.  I just am not that familiar with Mopar engine, but this one should run a bunch better IMHO.

Offline OUTLAW

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Re: Not a happy owner.....no love here! Long story...large file attached
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2005 - 07:39:09 AM »
ok If I read this right, your not unhappy with the price or the quality of the restoration, or even the handleing. What I hear is, its not as fast as I expected. If all the above is true then you only need to repair the "fast part". Also having never owned a mopar, yet owning over 70 muscle cars I have to assume they were mostly chevies. Which (not as a put down) almost anyone can build to run decent just like the other 50 at the drive-in. All carbon copies and its all been sorted out buy a million guys already. I find with mopars you need to either have someone who really knows them put them together or you have to spend a lot of time sorting things out yourself.I never have been able to bolt and go with a mopar like I can with a chevy. But once everything is sorted out, I have never been disapointed with the results either. Mopars are just harder to dial in and it sounds like yours just needs to be dialed in. your statement
Quote
For a crate 360 with at least 380 hp, the car is not  'fast' Yes, it sounds mean, idles like sh*t is high reving but seems to be lacking any torque, or at least is not ;crisp'
pretty much says it all right there. its a beautiful car from the pictures and I think when you do get it sorted out you will probably kick yourself for not owning one sooner. In my opinion, you have dropped this much money into a looker, (and you don't sound like your totally broke) drop a couple more bucks into it and have a car to die for when your done.  Also who knows what they did to it b4 you got it. also i havent seen a 360/380 crate motor go for that cheap in a long time . Hope ya get it going right and really enjoy the car it IS A LOOKER

Offline BB73Challenger

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Re: Not a happy owner.....no love here! Long story...large file attached
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2005 - 07:48:21 AM »
1 ) hang on to your E-bod, even if you do just cover it for now. At the current rate, none will be had for a decent buck.

2 ) Depending on what "range" or power band this motor was built for, maybe the trans has too low of a stall speed. My brother recently rebuilt his 318 for a high rev app. and when we also replced the torque convertor, it was night and day.

3 ) If it was my car as it sits, and it is a beautiful looking car, I would opt to take it to a "pro" to go over the motor. Now I know you mentioned and I've seen some of your posts regarding the valvetrain noise, that would worry me. I would not be suprised if the motor would need serious attention. I would alsmost go as far as saying rebuild ( I know you don't want to hear that ) BUT here is what would happen. I'm sure you are not very confident on what's in or going on with your motor.
A rebuild will get the motor to the specs you want. A good driver, more grunt... you pick. Then you can "match" the convertor with your build. I've seen a lot of "speed" parts make a car slower if it's not the right combo. Who knows if this guy stabbed a huge cam in your motor, or if it's too much carb or what. I think a tear down would give you not only a possitive answer as to what's in there, but you can look the valvetrain over for any over heating or blueing.

I won't ramble on anymore, but in my opinion, you have the hardest part done, the car looks great. The mechanics of it may not be cheap but I would say the easiest of problems to tackle.
Keep us updated!
Jeff from Cleveland, Ohio

Offline Karfever

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Re: Not a happy owner.....no love here! Long story...large file attached
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2005 - 07:51:37 AM »
Thanks for the advice so far. Most of my cars have been Corvettes and 442/GTO. When you are familar with a brand it is much easier for sure. I usually do ALL my own work as it is easier to please yourself..(no pun intended!) A photo of my most recent 442 project.

Offline Karfever

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Re: Not a happy owner.....no love here! Long story...large file attached
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2005 - 07:54:07 AM »
So if I can find this elusive 'PRO' Mopar engine guy in North Florida............ :dontknow:

Offline BB73Challenger

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Re: Not a happy owner.....no love here! Long story...large file attached
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2005 - 08:04:58 AM »
Well.... saying it is easy.
I did see that Chryco offered if he had a plane ticket. I'm telling you, that guy has sorted out some real mysteries for me just over the forum here. I have hands down, never have come across a more knowledgeable person - most guys are windbags. Now that might be extreme. What you may want to do is go to local cruise spots and shows and try to find some cars that have the sound and go you are looking for and just start picking thier brain on who did the work. It's not very uncommon for people to have the work done for them. I know you said you like to do the work yourself as I do, but like was said, there is a large amount of "comfort" in working with something you are familiar with.

So, as it stands, if it's my green Chally, I'd plan to keep the 360 but look at a rebuild, being real extreme again, rebuild the whole thing to what you want. Pic a new cam, valvetrain maybe even intake and carb.
I think you are closer than your car is letting on. As outlaw said, some of these motors can be finiky, and I'd be lying if I said I didn't spend a lot of "tuneing" time on mine. I'm always "tweaking"... but I'm always looking for a little more too.
Jeff from Cleveland, Ohio

Offline 74chall

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Re: Not a happy owner.....no love here! Long story...large file attached
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2005 - 11:46:51 AM »
Hydraulic cam you should not hear valvetrain noise.  The Mp 380 horse crate is an awesome motor. my buddy has one with a set of edelbrock heads bolted on in his cuda and runs 12.0 all day long.
You are kind of sounding like my father from your story. He is an all out Gm fan and had a ton of chevelles and recently just sold his big block ss with hotckis suspension, beautiful car.

I then found him a challenger for a good deal but all he does is B*tches about it. Doesnt  ride like a GM, blah blah blah. It is a drastic change from Gm to moapr but when your settled in theres no turning back. I think you need to sort some problems out with your ride. It looks pretty nice and doesnt look like it needs much.  Sway bars and the correct torsion bars are huge in handaling with e bodys. Also good shocks. The rallyes with small tires are not helping handling at all either.
I say get the car tuned and make a few suspension up grades and go from there. I cant stand stock e body seats so if you dont care about orgional buy a set of recaros or soemthign and throw them in. It changes the whole ride/feel for the car. And if you have the stock 2 spoke steering wheel that is a must to get ride of and go to an aftermarket smaller wheel.  Hope this helps!

Offline BB73Challenger

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Re: Not a happy owner.....no love here! Long story...large file attached
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2005 - 12:05:47 PM »
And if you have the stock 2 spoke steering wheel that is a must to get ride of and go to an aftermarket smaller wheel. 

WHAT??
No way!
Jeff from Cleveland, Ohio

Offline Karfever

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Re: Not a happy owner.....no love here! Long story...large file attached
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2005 - 12:43:06 PM »
The steering wheel is one of the best things about the car!

Offline BB73Challenger

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Re: Not a happy owner.....no love here! Long story...large file attached
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2005 - 01:09:12 PM »
Way off topic - are you the same Karfever that has a bid on a bumper on e-bay?
Jeff from Cleveland, Ohio

Offline Karfever

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Re: Not a happy owner.....no love here! Long story...large file attached
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2005 - 01:39:44 PM »
Yeap! same one!  I need the bumper guards!

Offline BB73Challenger

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Re: Not a happy owner.....no love here! Long story...large file attached
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2005 - 01:42:31 PM »
They did look in good shape.
I don't know why but I was browsing and the winning bidder's screen name caught my eye.
Now you have to keep the Challenger  :grinyes:
Jeff from Cleveland, Ohio

Offline Karfever

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Re: Not a happy owner.....no love here! Long story...large file attached
« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2005 - 02:05:07 PM »
YEAH, YOU GUYS ARE SLOWLY TALKING ME INTO KEEPING THE CAR! I JUST NEED TO FIND A ENGINE GUY LOCALLY OR SEND A TICKET TO cRYCO