Author Topic: Legal Issues--Advice  (Read 1583 times)

Offline bolo185

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 83
Legal Issues--Advice
« on: February 25, 2014 - 03:01:32 PM »
I know cars are usually sold as-is but what if they were misrepresented either intentionally or overlooked?

Last August 2013 I bought a 70 resto-mod pro touring Cuda from out-of-state. Beautiful car, advertised as a nut-and-bolt rotisserie restoration finished in December 2012. Advertised as show quality paint, TKO 5-sp tranny, Wilwood brakes, etc etc. Spoke to the shop owner that built it, said his shop built it for a friend but the friend was getting a divorce and needed to sell the car so the shop owner was selling it for him. Again, said everything was new or rebuilt, nut and bolt rotisserie restoration, show quality paint, TKO tranny, Wilwood brakes, new interior, said perfect condition, no leaks. Went on about all the work they did, cars history, only the finest parts used. I had an independent inspection done (just a basic visual inspection, test drive and paint thickness test). Minor things were noted but shop owner agreed to fix most things.

I paid for the car via cashiers checks made out to the shop owner, and he sent me an e-mail bill of sale and got the title signed by his friend and sent me the title. Transporter picked up the car at his shop on a lift gate enclosed hauler about 10 days later and delivered it on the same hauler with no transfers or offloads. Car was beautiful but had a dead battery. Jumped it and drove it home, immediately noticed leaks from the tranny, oil pan, and rear end. Clutch also slipped and was hard to engage.

To make a long story short, the shop owner / builder told me to take it to a local shop he found to have the leaks and clutch fixed. The new shop found 35 issues with the car and said they didn't want to work on another builder's car with so many issues. I ended up taking it to another reputable street rod shop where they found the same issues and more. I kept in contact with the Cuda builder the whole time keeping him informed. The shop dissembled it to find the leaks and clutch issues and it ended up being a can of worms. Most issues were not visible until the car was taken apart. 

Has several issues but the major ones were the tranny is NOT a TKO 5-sp as advertised, it's a stock Ford Mustang 5-sp Tremec tranny, not meant for the 440 big block power. I was told the TKO is a heavier duty tranny meant for big block power and the stock Tremec in it now wouldn't last long with the 440. Also had major clutch issues (geometry wrong with no adjustment left), rear end leaked from all the seals and gaskets onto the rear brakes and when disassembled, had a ton of red silicone everywhere obviously trying to stop the leaks. Modified bell housing, tranny mounts and clutch basket to try and make things fit but all wrong. Has aftermarket disc brakes, not the Wilwood brakes it was advertised with. Many more issues including bubbles between the paint and clear coat in 3 areas (advertised as show quality paint).

I have over 50 e-mails and 500 text between me and the builder with him initially agreeing to pay for repairs but as the total grew he is starting to back out. I told him the car was advertised with a TKO 5-speed tranny, Wilwood brakes and was advertised as a nut and bolt rotisserie restoration and I expected it to be delivered that way. He backpedaled saying he wasn't around his shop much during the build and trusted his guys. He said after I sent him all the pictures and documentation from the repair shops he fired 3 of his guys in the shop because that is not the quality of cars he puts out. He has always answered my text or phone calls but all I've gotten is false promises. He says the friend he built the car for got the money for the car so the issue is with him. I never dealt with the actual owner of the car, only the shop owner who built the car, advertised the car and sold me the car. The car I received was not in the condition as described in the original CL ad placed by the shop or described by the shop owner himself.

The visual inspection I had done at the builders shop before I bought it did not show any leaks or driving issues. I don't know if the car was taken on a damaging joy ride before it was picked up or if advertised parts were swapped out before I got it. Bottom line, do I have a leg to stand on because the car was advertised with specific brand name parts that were not on the car when I got it? I told the builder I'm not asking for all the problems to be fixed, just replace the misrepresented parts to what the car was advertised with.

The shop owner says his attorneys would chew up and spit out a lawsuit, but he is willing to help me out a little financially but it's nothing close to what I expect. Any attorneys on the forum here or anyone have a similar issue in the past? Like I said, I know cars are sold as-is but what about ones advertised with specific parts that were not on the car when delivered? These issues surfaced immediately, and I was in contact with the builder from day 1 and constant contact as the new issues came to light in the shop where it's been the last 4 months. I've been to the shop for them to show me the issues they found and I documented it all with photos which I sent the builder. Thanks in advance for any input.                                 




Offline anlauto

  • Permanent Resident
  • *******
  • Posts: 12328
  • I'm Alan G...I'm a Mopar Addict
    • Alan Gallant Automotive Restoration
Re: Legal Issues--Advice
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2014 - 03:31:39 PM »
I would say some of the fault lies on the guy that did the basic inspection. I understand you only had him do a basic inspection, but some of the major issues you're finding now, could possibly have been found with a more through inspection. :2cents:

I would say in this case, it's very hard to fault "one" person. In my opinion. the seller, the owner, the inspector, and you are partially to blame.

I do wish you the best of luck, it's a crappy situation all around for sure, but legally, I think if any of the paper work claims "as is" "where is" you're SOL :2cents:
I've taught you everything you know.....but I haven't taught you everything I know !
www.alangallantautomotiverestoration.com

Offline blown motor

  • Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 3013
Re: Legal Issues--Advice
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2014 - 04:09:18 PM »
I'm not sure what the answer is here but a lawsuit will take years, especially since you're dealing out of state. Like Alan said, if there was any claims of "as is, where is" then you have a tough row to hoe.

Are you certain the transporter is clean in this? If so, then you were delivered a car that was not as advertised in a lot of ways. In my opinion that's fraud.

Google the builder's name and see if there are any other such claims against him.
In search of the eternal buzz!

Offline crocha617

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1700
Re: Legal Issues--Advice
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2014 - 04:25:42 PM »
Not sure what kind of money you paid for the car or what he's offering to give you back to offset the repairs but as said above lawsuits take for ever and it will probably cost you more then you will receive back if you did happen to win. I would try like crazy to work it out with him and /or the owner. Even if he's offering 50 cents on the dollar you might want to just take it and be done with it.

Offline Racer57

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1489
Re: Legal Issues--Advice
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2014 - 05:19:44 PM »
I can sympathize with you because I had almost as bad of an experience once I started fixing minor things which became major on my car and realized that I bought it from a "flipper" and not a "restorer."

1st...Be very nice to him and even go to the extent of telling him your sorry (lying like hell of course) so that you can milk him out of as much money as you can 

2nd...IF you know any that's an attorney or associated with one, you might have them write a threatening letter that includes copies of the original letter from the shop stating what the car had. You might be able to get one done for a $100.00. 

3rd...Lawsuit will cost you more than the car is probably worth.

Offline 'Cuda Hunter

  • Sr. Resident
  • ******
  • Posts: 9102
  • Tastes Like Chicken
Re: Legal Issues--Advice
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2014 - 05:27:03 PM »
Go break his knees and call it even.  :bigsmile: :wavingflag: :rebel:
"All riches begin as a state of mind and you have complete control of your mind"  -- B. Lee

Offline CudamanTom

  • Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 2670
Re: Legal Issues--Advice
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2014 - 05:54:50 PM »
Go break his knees and call it even.  :bigsmile: :wavingflag: :rebel:
:iagree:  :smilielol:
1971 Cuda Vert 440-833 - (clone)
1971 Cuda 440-727 - (clone)


Because I like it fast!!!

Offline 72cudamaan

  • Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 3248
Re: Legal Issues--Advice
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2014 - 08:28:51 PM »
If you have documentation showing brand of parts as opposed to what the car was delivered with, that should be
a no brainer in court. Opinion on what constitutes a restoration could be debated for a long time. What is the
maximum you can collect in small claims court in your state? Might be the fastest way to settle this. Good
luck, hope you prevail.
If I cant fix it, it's broke
 
Andy  (phukker whither)

Offline Surfmichaels

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 260
Re: Legal Issues--Advice
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2014 - 11:52:10 PM »
Don't believe anyone who says their lawyer is guaranteed to win. I would get a legal opinion on the contract without discussing it with the shop. Save and Document Everything! and say as little as possible until you do so. For example saying he fired staff due to your vehicle could self implicate wrong doing. Even if he offers to fix everything it may be worth it to get a legal opinion and/or contract written up. And remember lawyer up not as a threat but so that you are properly informed of your options and do not give away any rights. CAVEAT, I am not a lawyer.

Offline ToxicWolf

  • Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 2416
Re: Legal Issues--Advice
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2014 - 12:19:16 AM »
Consider talking to a local prosecutor about possible fraud charges. If you could get one on your side you might be able to use the possibility of criminal charges to negotiate a settlement. At least the prosecutor won't charge you for his or her time.

Offline 4 speed fish

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 849
Re: Legal Issues--Advice
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2014 - 12:58:44 AM »
If you file a lawsuit in small claims you will have to do it in the county the builder lives in.It is easy and cheap  to file a small claim against him.You will plea your case in front of the judge and the judge will make a ruling.

Offline Katfish

  • Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 3733
  • 70 Challenger
Re: Legal Issues--Advice
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2014 - 05:54:49 AM »
If you file a lawsuit in small claims you will have to do it in the county the builder lives in.It is easy and cheap  to file a small claim against him.You will plea your case in front of the judge and the judge will make a ruling.

Here is your best advice, as stated though, there is a limit in small claims, usually $5000.
So if you want the car, and $5k would get it "somewhat" fixed, go that route.

No way you're ever going to come out ahead with a lawyer, best case scenario, you get ALL your money refunded and return the car, while paying $10-$20k in fees.
Worst case scenario is you get nothing and still pay the $20k in fees.

And just because you with in court doesn't mean you win, guy still doesn't have to pay, most likely you'll have to take him to collections.

My advice, figure out a number you're happy with, say $10k, ask him to settle.  He'll probably say no, then you take him to small claims will most likely win with the evidence you have.
Be prepared to go to court at least 3 times.  You need to file, 2nd time will be with a mediator, then only if you both can't agree do you go before the judge.

I've gone to small claims 3 times, I'm 3-0, it's nothing like Judge Judy.

Good luck

Offline 6771plymouth

  • john
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 200
Re: Legal Issues--Advice
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2014 - 10:25:35 AM »
I went to small claim courts for a bad tenant, make sure you have good documentation on every thing . even if you don't use it all I showed the judge less then half the stuff I had and won the case

Offline anlauto

  • Permanent Resident
  • *******
  • Posts: 12328
  • I'm Alan G...I'm a Mopar Addict
    • Alan Gallant Automotive Restoration
Re: Legal Issues--Advice
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2014 - 10:54:19 AM »
Any updates from the original poster ?
I've taught you everything you know.....but I haven't taught you everything I know !
www.alangallantautomotiverestoration.com