Author Topic: Brake upgrade or not? Need help deciding (Read 2190 times)

Mpdlawdog · « **on:** March 02, 2014 - 10:57:30 AM »

I have a 72 rally 4 speed. I'm about to pull the front k member out of. I'm going to rebuild the suspension, bigger torsion bars, adjustable strut rods and so on. I figured since it's out I will upgrade the front brakes (has disks but hasn't been on the road since 86). I was looking at wilwood 140-11021.....dr diff either the level 2 or 3....I use the car as a back road race car and maybe some open track days down the road...cost is a factor...That's why I haven't pulled the trigger yet...I can buy dr diffs level two and still have some money to go for my hotchkis rear springs..blow my budget on the level 3....or just clean up the factory fronts and be done..decisions decisions

73EStroker · « **Reply #1 on:** March 03, 2014 - 07:12:28 AM »

I would go with Dr Diff level 2. He sells good products. Talk to him first and tell him what you need as he only sells you that, no more. I went the other way and got pre-2001 Viper Calipers, some 73- 76 A body drum spindles and went for his adapter kit. Rotors are 73 C body from R1.

anlauto · « **Reply #2 on:** March 03, 2014 - 07:31:17 AM »

I wonder....I don't know a lot about this modified stuff, but I wonder if you'll get a better over all braking package by adding rear disc brakes? I mean you already have front discs, would adding 4 wheel disc give you a better brake upgrade for the money then just improving your front discs and leaving your rear drum ?

brads70 · « **Reply #3 on:** March 03, 2014 - 08:02:58 AM »

Be aware that the Hotchkis rear springs lower the car quite a bit? I agree Cass's level 2 would work good. Rear disc.... when money allows. Careful not to go too big in the rear(discs). The fronts do most of the braking anyhow. I had my 12" Viper set up with rear 10 1/2" drums for a couple of years before I bought the new Dana with DrDiff's 10.7 rear disc brakes. Works great! Drums were fine on the street, never autocrossed with them though?
http://www.doctordiff.com/rear-disc-brake-kit-10.7-rotor.html

cudazappa · « **Reply #4 on:** March 03, 2014 - 08:58:36 AM »

What are your plans for the car? Show or go? Driving around town, or hot laps on track days? The stock 10.87" discs and 10" rear drums are more than adequate for daily driving (and autocrossing, & bracket racing) these cars. The only thing I would do is buy the ~$50 bearing spacer from dr diff so you can run the 73-89 (AKA cheap & readily available) rotors.

The only time you need to start changing your calipers is when you want different compounds to stop because your performance driving dictates it.

Rear discs are great for proper modulation while driving. Rear drums self energize so your pedal feel changes as you apply the brakes. Rear discs provide a terrific linear feel and if you're threshold braking, it makes it easier. Do they make the car stop better? Not as much as most people think because fronts do most of the work. And the fronts should always lock up first!

I'm currently autocrossing my car with stock brakes, the only upgrade being 11.75" Cordoba rotors. (because I had the parts and I needed rotors anyways). Properly cooled, they can last a long time on a road course. But you may need to go to the wilwood caliper.

I have a Baer 13" front setup waiting for a rear disc setup (next year tax return maybe?) but the plan is to track the car and the PBR calipers have a terrific selection of pads as they are used on both Mustangs and Corvettes.

Just my 2� (pretty much my car budget anyways)

Mpdlawdog · « **Reply #5 on:** March 05, 2014 - 09:52:59 AM »

well brad my car cant get much lower in the back than what it is

the springs are FLAT...I will have to get a pic but you can see in the pic..I dont know the "history" of the car other than it has sat in a shop since 85-86....it has brand new with the sticker on goodyear eagle st on it

on 14 inch rallys no less.....I have the hotchkins frame connectors ready to go on the car...I like the way the hotchkis rear springs mount up to the frame connectors...and going with their shocks when I get the money......I like their stuff....expensive but well made

....pic one is without the motor...pic two is with it in

I took the front wheel off and was looking at the set up...I will run her hard and def a go car...just check out her beautiful paint job

The perty stuff can wait for now...want to get her on the road!!...just not sure the set up is up to the task....I will keep the rear drums for now seeing as they only do a small amount of the work....and its not in my budget now.....

thanks cudazappa....I didnt think about the pedal issue with the drums....if I can get away with the stock set up Im down and will spend the money in other parts needed (wheel and tires next).....how did you get the 11.75 rotor on the stock set up? Does the bearing spacer do it? Ive never heard of that..thanks guys

brads70 · « **Reply #6 on:** March 05, 2014 - 01:28:22 PM »

Here is a link to the stock " big" rotor set up, in case you haven't looked at it before.

http://www.moparaction.com/Tech/archive/disc-main.html

Mpdlawdog · « **Reply #7 on:** March 05, 2014 - 02:47:25 PM »

Quote from: brads70 on March 05, 2014 - 01:28:22 PM

Here is a link to the stock " big" rotor set up, in case you haven't looked at it before.
http://www.moparaction.com/Tech/archive/disc-main.html

not to sound like a dummy but by the time you source all those parts...you will have to be close to dr. diffs stage two kit??

brads70 · « **Reply #8 on:** March 05, 2014 - 03:27:43 PM »

Quote from: Mpdlawdog on March 05, 2014 - 02:47:25 PM

not to sound like a dummy but by the time you source all those parts...you will have to be close to dr. diffs stage two kit??

Depending on what spindles you have, ( mine was equipped with the 73-74 E-Body spindles when I bought it) all you need is the caliper bracket and the new rotors .Cass has the slider type caliper bracket if you can't find a Cordoba '76-'79 B-body or 79-up R-body (St. Regis, etc. ) in a wrecking yard near you.
http://www.doctordiff.com/disc-brake-slider-caliper-mounts-backets-for-11-3-4-rotor-upgrade.html

cuda346pk · « **Reply #9 on:** March 05, 2014 - 05:05:13 PM »

I too went the Viper set up with the Dr Diff kit. Just got it going again as I did most of what you are discussing here. In fact I am at the alignment shop right now to get it dialed in the rest of the way. I used stock rear drums and swapped to Dakota rear wheel cylinders. Seems to work so far but I still have a manual drum/drum M/C. I would go with Dr Diff stage 2 probably. His stuff is quality and you will be getting modern stuff.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

cudazappa · « **Reply #10 on:** March 05, 2014 - 11:11:56 PM »

Quote from: Mpdlawdog on March 05, 2014 - 09:52:59 AM

well brad my car cant get much lower in the back than what it is the springs are FLAT...I will have to get a pic but you can see in the pic..I dont know the "history" of the car other than it has sat in a shop since 85-86....it has brand new with the sticker on goodyear eagle st on it on 14 inch rallys no less.....I have the hotchkins frame connectors ready to go on the car...I like the way the hotchkis rear springs mount up to the frame connectors...and going with their shocks when I get the money......I like their stuff....expensive but well made ....pic one is without the motor...pic two is with it in

I took the front wheel off and was looking at the set up...I will run her hard and def a go car...just check out her beautiful paint job The perty stuff can wait for now...want to get her on the road!!...just not sure the set up is up to the task....I will keep the rear drums for now seeing as they only do a small amount of the work....and its not in my budget now.....

thanks cudazappa....I didnt think about the pedal issue with the drums....if I can get away with the stock set up Im down and will spend the money in other parts needed (wheel and tires next).....how did you get the 11.75 rotor on the stock set up? Does the bearing spacer do it? Ive never heard of that..thanks guys

When I bought my 71 Challenger the front end had been serviced and was in "ok" shape. I had working disc brakes and the ball joints were in good shape. I measured the rotors and they were turned undersize so I needed to buy rotors. When I saw the cost and availability of 70-72 rotors as compared to 73+ A/E rotors (used all the way to 1989 on M-bodies) I decided to buy Dr. Diff's bearing spacer. In 1973 they changed the spindle by making the diameter for the inner wheel bearing 1/8" larger. So the Dr's spacer transforms a 70-72 B/E spindle into a 73-76 A/E spindle. And it is a non-wear part. Then while going through my "spare" parts I saw I had a caliper adapters from a 76-77 B-body (use pin calipers like the 70-72 B/Es) which I could use with my still good and working calipers. At that point I was just the cost of rotors away from completing the upgrade. And down time was essentially the same as if I was just changing the rotors. I spent roughly ~$50 for spacers, ~$170 for rotors, and caliper adapters can be found anywhere from $50-$100. Mine came off a parts car years ago.

Just a quick perusal on his website looking at his kits
Stage 1 is essentially a 73-89 10.87" slider disc brake kit. Not an upgrade at all if you have stock discs on your 70-72.
Stage 2 is the 78-81 11.75" slider disc brakes. More expensive then you need because you already have disc spindles. You can buy his caliper adapters but you'd also be changing your calipers. Personally I like the pin type better than the slider type brakes. If you can't find pin type caliper adapters then this is the way to go. Requires 15" wheels.
Stage 3 is the 13" Mustang Cobra Rotor and PBR calipers. Several companies make this kit. I have the baer version which I paid about this much for. The good Dr. has lowered his price. Doesn't appear to come with spindles. This will require 17" wheels.

dodj · « **Reply #11 on:** March 05, 2014 - 11:24:55 PM »

Hi Dave!
I put Baer Decela drilled and slotted rotors with ceramic pads on the front of my '73 and am happy with them. I know, pretty subjective assessment. I don't auto-x but drive pretty aggressively.
Got them from here
http://www.autoanything.com/brakes/61A3941A0A0.aspx

73EStroker · « **Reply #12 on:** March 07, 2014 - 11:29:49 PM »

I got my 76 b body pin caliper mounts for $20 and paid about $120 for new cordoba discs and that was it for my disc equipped 73. Everything else was stock. Now I also have Hydraboost but that doesn't count on this thread. Very inexpensive upgrade if you hunt around.

Author Topic: Brake upgrade or not? Need help deciding (Read 2190 times)

Mpdlawdog

Brake upgrade or not? Need help deciding

73EStroker

Re: Brake upgrade or not? Need help deciding

anlauto

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brads70

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cudazappa

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Mpdlawdog

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brads70

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Mpdlawdog

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brads70

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cuda346pk

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cudazappa

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dodj

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73EStroker

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