Still to hot????????

[cudabob496]

Now I remember, the last car built with a mechanical fan was the Yugo!

Lets see, in last 25 years, no car build in a magazine uses a mechanical fan,
no car built in the world uses a mechancial fan (ok, maybe Russia), and no car at the dragstrips
uses a mechancal fan.  There's a trend here, I think!

Yes, I like to make power for the street. My goal is not a reliable grocery getter.

[mopar jack]

I have an 03 ram truck 5.7 with towing package and the factory used a mechanical clutch fan for cooling. Works great. Also if you had a Dyno with a clutch fan installed and could push it into oncoming air at 60 mph I would think that the H.P. loss would be much less than 17. Years ago mopar performance introduced a 5 blade fan and clucth that would save 15 HP. I put one on and went to the track to test it out, car ran hotter and no noticable difference in E.T.

[cudabob496]

This is exactly why there should be a fantasy thread. So ONE guy says without proof that he gained 17hp. SO WHAT?
As you can see, the responses are all running towards reliability, not maximum hp. As far as I can tell, you are the only one worried about
every little hp gain. I personally don't care if every car in every magazine runs an electric fan, I still don't want too. As stated, cars
with electric fans from the factory utilize a much heavier fan set up with substantially more electrical drain than what you have.
And for a street car WHO cares about a couple of pounds difference? Quit trying to push your fantasy world car on everybody else.
It's getting kind of tiring hearing you spout all sorts of data about your car over and over again. Hang on a minute and I might
slide off of my soapbox.

My world is not fantasy. Been driving it regularly for 23 years, with the help of a lot of great suggestions from this site.

[72cudamaan]

Now I remember, the last car built with a mechanical fan was the Yugo!

Lets see, in last 25 years, no car build in a magazine uses a mechanical fan,
no car built in the world uses a mechancial fan (ok, maybe Russia), and no car at the dragstrips
uses a mechancal fan.  There's a trend here, I think!

Yes, I like to make power for the street. My goal is not a reliable grocery getter.

My 05 Ram has a mechanical fan and I believe most every other truck on the road does too. Not quite 25 years, but close.
Gee, I wonder if transverse mounted engines in front wheel drives has anything to do with the reduced level of usage
in cars for the last 25 years.   

[cudabob496]

My 05 Ram has a mechanical fan and I believe most every other truck on the road does too. Not quite 25 years, but close.
Gee, I wonder if transverse mounted engines in front wheel drives has anything to do with the reduced level of usage
in cars for the last 25 years.   

Notice I said "car"

And you mentioned my fixation with extracting every little hp out of an engine.  Yes,
its an illness that became prevalent after WWll, called "hotrodding"

[challengerx]

Well cudabob what would your suggestion be then as I said I'm looking for a fix. More cfm fans?

[cudabob496]

Well cudabob what would your suggestion be then as I said I'm looking for a fix. More cfm fans?

Well, most everyone on this site has good suggestions. An aluminum radiator will reduce average
engine temp by 20 degrees.  Electric fans work best on aluminum radiators.  I agree that the mechanical
clutch fan is a great cooler.  I'm performance oriented, so I went electrical, and noticed right away when the
mechanical and its weight were not hanging off a pulley on the front of my engine.  Shrouds are almost always
a necessity.  In a lot of ways, it depends how you use your car, and what temps you drive it in.  My 600+
horse 496 does great with an alum radiator and a 16 inch electric fan from Summit. I kept the stock shroud
on my radiator, and placed the electric fan inside it. More cfm might help, but get the shroud in, or else you may
be just circulating air, and not pulling much through your radiator. Again, a higher idle makes your coolant pump, pump
more water. I have my car idle at 1200 rpm. Works best with my cam and everything. A vented engine comparment helps a lot.
In old day, racers would jack up the back of their hoods by 2 inches, to relieve engine compartment pressure. This
improved cooling and made cars go faster (oops, there I go again, in fantasy land!)

On a side note, below is the fatest production car ever, on the Nurburgring in Germany. Kills Vipers and Porches, etc. Amazingly,
it only had 360 hp, but its aerodynamics is so good, and has so much down force, it could theoretically drive upside down.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Radical_SR8.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbmDKZ78MOU

[Chryco Psycho]

most cars since the Yugo have not had 500 ci performance engines - the Viper , but most engines making a lot of heat & working hard such as trucks & especially Cummins have all used mechanical fans .
 Not saying there is a right or wrong way to do things but a clutch fan is very efficient & when moving draw very little power & in street driven Muscle cars I have found them more effective overall

[cudabob496]

this can help in the cooling department

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/rpo-01600


Also, in summer, I run 20% antifreeze, to 80% water, in my coolant, to cool better.
Just get it back up to 50% for cold winters

[Strawdawg]

Well, most everyone on this site has good suggestions. An aluminum radiator will reduce average
engine temp by 20 degrees.  Electric fans work best on aluminum radiators.  I agree that the mechanical
clutch fan is a great cooler.  I'm performance oriented, so I went electrical, and noticed right away when the
mechanical and its weight were not hanging off a pulley on the front of my engine.  Shrouds are almost always
a necessity.  In a lot of ways, it depends how you use your car, and what temps you drive it in.  My 600+
horse 496 does great with an alum radiator and a 16 inch electric fan from Summit. I kept the stock shroud
on my radiator, and placed the electric fan inside it. More cfm might help, but get the shroud in, or else you may
be just circulating air, and not pulling much through your radiator.

  An Aluminum radiator will not lower the temperature by 20 degrees over a brass/copper radiator UNLESS the brass/copper radiator is undersized for the application or is plugged up.  Aluminum offers lighter weight and larger rectangular tubes which offer more surface to the surrounding air flow for better heat transfer but copper/brass offers a better coefficient of heat transfer so they are basically a wash when similarly sized.

An electric fan does not know if it is on an aluminum radiator or a copper/brass nor does a mechanical fan.  Both perform equally if the flow is equivalent.  Shroud design is all important and factory shrouds are often better designed than the aftermarket units.

[cudabob496]

  An Aluminum radiator will not lower the temperature by 20 degrees over a brass/copper radiator UNLESS the brass/copper radiator is undersized for the application or is plugged up.  Aluminum offers lighter weight and larger rectangular tubes which offer more surface to the surrounding air flow for better heat transfer but copper/brass offers a better coefficient of heat transfer so they are basically a wash when similarly sized.

An electric fan does not know if it is on an aluminum radiator or a copper/brass nor does a mechanical fan.  Both perform equally if the flow is equivalent.  Shroud design is all important and factory shrouds are often better designed than the aftermarket units.

Geesh,  I went from a big block Mopar 26 inch copper brass, to a 2 inch aluminum, and my temps dropped about 20 degrees on average, when i was using a 5 blade Mopar clutch fan.  My big block Mopar rad had also just been rebuilt, rodded out, etc.

And similar sized copper brass and alum radiators cool the same? Baloney.

[moparstyle]

It sounds like no issues while moving just not enough fan capability when stopped , shrouds make a huge difference because it forces the fan to pull air from the whole area of the rad not just the area in front of the fans , Personally I do not like electric fans , nothing is as efficient as an 18" clutch fan driven by the engine , you can use the Jaguar clutch , it is much shorter & bolts onto the Mopar water pumps if clearance is an issue .

CP, any Jaguar clutch or do you have a specific in mind?

Interesting thread!

[Strawdawg]

Geesh,  I went from a big block Mopar 26 inch copper brass, to a 2 inch aluminum, and my temps dropped about 20 degrees on average, when i was using a 5 blade Mopar clutch fan.  My big block Mopar rad had also just been rebuilt, rodded out, etc.

And similar sized copper brass and alum radiators cool the same? Baloney.

you might try doing a little research on the subject rather than trying to make gross simplifications. Rodding out an old radiator does not restore it to new condition as the bonding of the fins to the tubes has deteriorated and reduced the heat tranfer ability to an extent.  Also one has to consider the volume of the core rather than saying I swapped this radiator for another one and my temperature dropped 20 degs because it was aluminum. 

[dodj]

I think first I will put on the shroud and see how this works since I paid for what I have and if that doesn't work put a mechanical on.

Good plan IMO. But also make sure the high temps you are reporting are actually high. Try to verify with a second source. Infa Red gun maybe?
What type of water pump do you have? Gasket thickness is very important. It sets the clearances of the impeller to the housing. If it is too thick, pump volume output is severely affected. Or so I have read.
 

[cudabob496]

you might try doing a little research on the subject rather than trying to make gross simplifications. Rodding out an old radiator does not restore it to new condition as the bonding of the fins to the tubes has deteriorated and reduced the heat tranfer ability to an extent.  Also one has to consider the volume of the core rather than saying I swapped this radiator for another one and my temperature dropped 20 degs because it was aluminum.

I've done quite a bit of research on the subject, at least for this lifetime.  Looked at all the
heat transfer coefficients for the different metals, looked at the welding techniques, the tube size,
etc etc.  Gonna go with what has worked best. With my aluminum radiator, rarely have to turn on my
electric fan.  By the way, an electric fan would have to consume 57 amps, to be equivalent to a 1 hp
load on an alternator. My fan uses 10 amps.  Granted, if I was in stop and go city driving, I would consider
a different setup, because I do have a 496 engine that can put out some heat. I live where there is a lot
of open road, but we do get over 100 degrees sometimes.