Author Topic: Time to learn how to patch panels  (Read 6906 times)

Offline Edison1970

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Re: How long from bad to worse?
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2014 - 05:17:08 PM »
I used the Goodmark piece too.  I cut it just below the marker light.  You really will not know how much to cut until you remove some of the paint.  I found a few weak spots after I removed the paint.  They were small black dots but I pushed on them with a pick and went straight through. That is how I determined how much more metal to remove.  The only issue with the Goodmark patch panel is the contour around the wheel well was not  very close to the original.  I shaped it with a body hammer and some filler afterwards.  Look in from the trunk and see how the metal looks.  Don't cut any higher than you have to.  The lower the patch the better if you aren't that good at body work.  You can get an idea of the patch on my thread.  Here is the link. http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=81526.60




Offline ToxicWolf

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Re: How long from bad to worse?
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2014 - 05:33:19 PM »
I used the Goodmark piece too.  I cut it just below the marker light.  You really will not know how much to cut until you remove some of the paint.  I found a few weak spots after I removed the paint.  They were small black dots but I pushed on them with a pick and went straight through. That is how I determined how much more metal to remove.  The only issue with the Goodmark patch panel is the contour around the wheel well was not  very close to the original.  I shaped it with a body hammer and some filler afterwards.  Look in from the trunk and see how the metal looks.  Don't cut any higher than you have to.  The lower the patch the better if you aren't that good at body work.  You can get an idea of the patch on my thread.  Here is the link. http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=81526.60


 :iagree:  Some massaging will be necessary.  That is probably true of any metal work.  Take your time and make sure you found all of the rusted areas and you are 100% happy with the way the repair looks before you start painting.   :2thumbs:

Offline torredcuda

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Re: How long from bad to worse?
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2014 - 07:04:15 PM »
Trunk extension goes all the way to the bottom of the quarter and is spot welded there and also along the eedge of the wheel well. Bubbling is usually a sign someones been in there before but didn`t do the job right  and the paint could be hiding some bad stuff.
Jeff
72 Barracuda 340/4spd  Torred
70 roadrunner 383/auto  In-Violet
70 Duster 360/auto drag car  (Petty Blue soon)
04 Ram 2500 5.7 Hemi

Offline dpcd67

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Re: How long from bad to worse?
« Reply #18 on: May 25, 2014 - 06:50:14 PM »
It's already worse; you just can't see it yet. But don't let any of this make you gun shy. Only way to learn is to jump in there and do it; remove your wheel well inserts and grind/cut out all the rusted metal. Go to Lowes and buy some 18 gauge sheet metal and, using your angle grinder or saw, saw out a piece to match what you cut out and bent it to match the contours as close as you can but don't fret over it. Weld the patch in, then grind off the welds flat; use some filler and spot putty to match the contour. Prime, paint. You can do it.  The second time you will get better at it.
1963 Dodge M37 (3)
1967 Dodge WM300 (2)
1971 Plymouth Duster
Bought new in '71; I wanted the Challenger but they were $2850; too much $ so I got the 318, 3 speed on the floor, Twister Duster for $2100.
1973 Plymouth Barracuda
I ain't done yet.

Offline jimynick

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Re: How long from bad to worse?
« Reply #19 on: May 25, 2014 - 09:07:33 PM »
OK, all the advice you're getting so far is right and the correct way to go- having said that, you DID say you wanted it quick and cheap- so, grind the immediate area, knock in the edges of the holes with light hammering and plug it with short strand fibreglass. Then, after you've cut away everything that doesn't look like a 1/4 panel, glaze putty it, repaint in what ever fashion you choose- you can go to a good paint store and they'll mix you spray cans of any colour you want. THEN, go to a good rustproofer and have them soak the area and the rest of the car as well. THEN. save your money during the time you're waiting for the holes to re-appear and do it right the next time.  :cheers:

Offline torredcuda

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Re: How long from bad to worse?
« Reply #20 on: May 26, 2014 - 06:15:43 AM »
 :iagree: That is the other option although I would use a good rust converter and use that rather than a rustproofer as the rust has already started and you need to stop it from getting worse.
Jeff
72 Barracuda 340/4spd  Torred
70 roadrunner 383/auto  In-Violet
70 Duster 360/auto drag car  (Petty Blue soon)
04 Ram 2500 5.7 Hemi

Offline msbaugh

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Re: How long from bad to worse?
« Reply #21 on: May 27, 2014 - 07:20:35 PM »
Thanks guys! I can't express how helpful the hints and advice will be. I'll keep everyone updated. I plan on getting started in a couple of weeks after I get back from my next hitch offshore

Offline ToxicWolf

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Re: How long from bad to worse?
« Reply #22 on: May 27, 2014 - 09:55:51 PM »
Thanks guys! I can't express how helpful the hints and advice will be. I'll keep everyone updated. I plan on getting started in a couple of weeks after I get back from my next hitch offshore

Don't forget the pix.  We love pictures.   :picture:

Offline msbaugh

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Re: How long from bad to worse?
« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2016 - 02:34:58 PM »
I am resurrecting this older thread!!! I have been putting off this job for a while now, but have bought a very nice Miller 211 MIG welder to get this done... I have also been collecting junk yard body panels to practice my butt welding and metal work techniques. 

I will get started on a scrap piece for practice first before I get out the dual action sander and angle grinder!  I will probably be looking for advice as I go.  This is uncharted territory for me!


Offline 70chall440

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Re: How long from bad to worse?
« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2016 - 08:05:44 PM »
Excellent choice of welders, I have a Autoset 212, 120 and Diverson (TIG) and love them.

what you are contemplating isnt that hard, you just need to take it slow and think about what you are doing. Of course it would be much better if you had someone local you could talk to and who could oversee what you are doing, but you can do it. The biggest issue is getting over the fear of doing it. Some helpful tips

1. you need to be a little cautious with heat. When you first start welding you think of like what you have seen where someone is laying a continuous bead on a piece of metal. With sheet metal (as on a car) this will lead to more problems with warping, burn through, etc. Watch a lot of you tube videos, car shows, etc and you will get the idea.

2. one of the harder things to get your mind around is tip distance from the weld. People tend to want to be way too close or way too far from the surface. You need to be in the shield zone so your gas (I am assuming you are going to be using Argon verses flux core wire) can shield your weld.

3. do not expect your welds to be "pretty" like on TV. First off these guys have been doing this for years, secondly you have no idea how many takes it took to get the footage they show.

4. if you start burning through (this is where when you start welding the metal melts away and leaves you with a hole); stop what you are doing and look at your settings. Just because the car was originally made with 18 or 20 gauge doesnt mean that metal is still that thick. Turn down the heat and try again somewhere else.

5. when stitch welding (making small welds one after another), it is helpful to start your weld slightly on top of the last one, however do not be too quick or it will melt away leaving you with a big hole (see #4).

6. do not be in a hurry, let the metal cool some between welds. In some cases you can use an air hose to help cool it or even a wet rag/sponge.

7. make sure the metal you are going to weld in is EXACTLY where you want it when you begin. There is a whole art form to shaping and positioning the piece. Sometimes you need to be creative in how you position and hold the new piece.

8. You cannot weld rust with any degree of structural integrety. What I mean is you MUST cut out the rust, how much depends on how much is there. General rule of thumb is at least 1" into good metal past the rust on all sides.

9. dont be afraid to grind down your welds as you go, but do not get too aggressive with your grinding or you will just make it thin and cause more problems than you already have.

10. understand that when you weld two pieces of metal together, it will most likely not end up looking like just one piece (like you didnt weld one peice to another); it can happen but more times than not you will be able to see where yo welded them together and have to do some body work to complete the repair. The 2 peices need to be in near perfect alignment and your grinding technique needs to be good.

There is of course tons more on welding and others can chime as they feel necessary, however I strongly urge you to practice, watch some videos and look at some books before you just straight in. That said, do not procrastenate forever, jump into the water and begin to swim. Just remember, in general, you can fix anything you do wrong, just know when to stop and seek help.
Current Mopar
70 Challenger RT 440-6 EFI, 73 Cuda 416-6 EFI
05 Hemi Durango, 01 Ram 4x4, 14 Ram 2500 4X4, 10 PCP Challenger 6 spd RT, 01 Viper GTS ACR, 52 B3B w/330 Desoto Hemi, 70 Hemi RR (under const)
Past Mopars
9 x Challengers. AAR Cuda, 4 RR, 2 GTX, 4 Chargers, etc... (too many to list)

Offline msbaugh

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Re: How long from bad to worse?
« Reply #25 on: January 18, 2016 - 02:14:14 PM »
Excellent choice of welders, I have a Autoset 212, 120 and Diverson (TIG) and love them.

what you are contemplating isnt that hard, you just need to take it slow and think about what you are doing. Of course it would be much better if you had someone local you could talk to and who could oversee what you are doing, but you can do it. The biggest issue is getting over the fear of doing it. Some helpful tips

1. you need to be a little cautious with heat. When you first start welding you think of like what you have seen where someone is laying a continuous bead on a piece of metal. With sheet metal (as on a car) this will lead to more problems with warping, burn through, etc. Watch a lot of you tube videos, car shows, etc and you will get the idea.

2. one of the harder things to get your mind around is tip distance from the weld. People tend to want to be way too close or way too far from the surface. You need to be in the shield zone so your gas (I am assuming you are going to be using Argon verses flux core wire) can shield your weld.

3. do not expect your welds to be "pretty" like on TV. First off these guys have been doing this for years, secondly you have no idea how many takes it took to get the footage they show.

4. if you start burning through (this is where when you start welding the metal melts away and leaves you with a hole); stop what you are doing and look at your settings. Just because the car was originally made with 18 or 20 gauge doesnt mean that metal is still that thick. Turn down the heat and try again somewhere else.

5. when stitch welding (making small welds one after another), it is helpful to start your weld slightly on top of the last one, however do not be too quick or it will melt away leaving you with a big hole (see #4).

6. do not be in a hurry, let the metal cool some between welds. In some cases you can use an air hose to help cool it or even a wet rag/sponge.

7. make sure the metal you are going to weld in is EXACTLY where you want it when you begin. There is a whole art form to shaping and positioning the piece. Sometimes you need to be creative in how you position and hold the new piece.

8. You cannot weld rust with any degree of structural integrety. What I mean is you MUST cut out the rust, how much depends on how much is there. General rule of thumb is at least 1" into good metal past the rust on all sides.

9. dont be afraid to grind down your welds as you go, but do not get too aggressive with your grinding or you will just make it thin and cause more problems than you already have.

10. understand that when you weld two pieces of metal together, it will most likely not end up looking like just one piece (like you didnt weld one peice to another); it can happen but more times than not you will be able to see where yo welded them together and have to do some body work to complete the repair. The 2 peices need to be in near perfect alignment and your grinding technique needs to be good.

There is of course tons more on welding and others can chime as they feel necessary, however I strongly urge you to practice, watch some videos and look at some books before you just straight in. That said, do not procrastenate forever, jump into the water and begin to swim. Just remember, in general, you can fix anything you do wrong, just know when to stop and seek help.


Wow.  Excellent tips! I've been doing a lot of research, but I need to start laying some beads down on thin sheet metal.  I understand the stich welding technique.  I've read some people will put a copper backing behind the weld surface which, in addition to the air nozzle, will help absorb heat.  I may give that a try.  Like I said, I have some spare junkyard doors and fenders from 90s pickups with minor rust that I can practice "restoring".

I'll be using 25% CO2 with .023 wire.  The miller 211 comes with a spool that will accept .023 all the way to .035 wire sizes.  That should work with the recommended settings.

The metal shaping will be the difficult part since I have little to no experience there.  I will practice every scenario I can before I cut my car up!  More pictures to come.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2016 - 02:18:32 PM by msbaugh »

Offline TelisSE440

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Re: Time to learn how to patch panels
« Reply #26 on: January 18, 2016 - 05:00:00 PM »
We await your progress with pics. I would like to enter this hobby, don't have a rust problem just yet...

Offline 70chall440

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Re: Time to learn how to patch panels
« Reply #27 on: January 20, 2016 - 12:55:38 AM »
I use .023 on most sheet metal, however .035 fills better (bigger wire), but requires more to be ground off.
Current Mopar
70 Challenger RT 440-6 EFI, 73 Cuda 416-6 EFI
05 Hemi Durango, 01 Ram 4x4, 14 Ram 2500 4X4, 10 PCP Challenger 6 spd RT, 01 Viper GTS ACR, 52 B3B w/330 Desoto Hemi, 70 Hemi RR (under const)
Past Mopars
9 x Challengers. AAR Cuda, 4 RR, 2 GTX, 4 Chargers, etc... (too many to list)