Author Topic: Heads up on new Borgeson steering box  (Read 5661 times)

Offline brads70

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Heads up on new Borgeson steering box
« on: May 22, 2014 - 08:13:53 PM »
Over on pro touring Mopar and Moparts  quite a few people have been having issues with the quality/fitment of these new steering boxes. Disappointing as I was considering one.  :walkaway:
Dan's findings....
1. Pitman spline engagement
2. Build tolerances/quality control
3. These boxes are not new castings, they are rebuilt and modified from used cores and show wear/tear to indicate such.
4. Center "tight spot" is a really tight sector adjustment and will "wear in" after use.



http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=8152894&page=0&vc=1&PHPSESSID=#Post8152894
Brad
1970 Challenger 451stroker/4L60 auto OD
Barrie,Ontario,Canada
Proud to own one of the best cars ever made!!!!!

My restoration thread 
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=59072.0
 My handling upgrade post
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=73985.0




Offline ToxicWolf

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Re: Heads up on new Borgeson steering box
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2014 - 10:30:11 PM »
I didn't realize those were rebuilt boxes.  I had looked at them too.   :dunno:

Offline BIGSHCLUNK

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Re: Heads up on new Borgeson steering box
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2014 - 11:32:19 PM »
After reading the link, I sure as he11 wouldn't want that in NIKKI! I'll stick w my S&G III  :grinyes:
70 Chally R/T Convertible- Yes she's really got a HEMI, no she's not a Charger!
                                             [o o o o]
                                                  OO
                                                  OO 
                                              [o o o o]
https://www.aanddtruckautoparts.com/
http://www.facebook.com/pages/A-D-Truck-and-Auto-Parts/67427352555?ref=hl

Offline arcticmopar

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Re: Heads up on new Borgeson steering box
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2014 - 08:29:06 PM »
Yup I just spent several nights fitting mine in (large spline). The minor bit of grinding I had read about was very optimistic at best! Had to reshape most of the backside to fit properly. :swear: And yes I cant get the pitman arm enough to use the thick lock-washer,guess it loctite time. :dunno: I was hoping for a little more header room too, might need it, the project is still on going.
If I knew before I wouldve stuck with Firmfeel...oh well...still have a large spline core so I might still! Will have to see how it drives.
RUNS WHITH SISSORS!  and  DIGITALY CHALLENGED!

Offline brads70

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Re: Heads up on new Borgeson steering box
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2014 - 10:05:21 PM »
Yup I just spent several nights fitting mine in (large spline). The minor bit of grinding I had read about was very optimistic at best! Had to reshape most of the backside to fit properly. :swear: And yes I cant get the pitman arm enough to use the thick lock-washer,guess it loctite time. :dunno: I was hoping for a little more header room too, might need it, the project is still on going.
If I knew before I wouldve stuck with Firmfeel...oh well...still have a large spline core so I might still! Will have to see how it drives.

Just curious... I know you shouldn't have to and it's not right but.... what if you bored the pitman arm inside diameter say .010" and tried it again?  Or, on the top side of the pitman arm machining/grinding a generous 45 deg angle around the splined area also allowing the arm to go further up the shaft allowing the use of the locknut? What I'm thinking is will this mod allow the arm to go up further on the shaft and allow the use of the locknut?  :dunno:
How is the angle to the steering column when mounted to the k-frame?
One of my concerns with all of this is how does it effect the from end geometry with all these things not where they should be?
« Last Edit: May 24, 2014 - 05:29:00 AM by brads70 »
Brad
1970 Challenger 451stroker/4L60 auto OD
Barrie,Ontario,Canada
Proud to own one of the best cars ever made!!!!!

My restoration thread 
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=59072.0
 My handling upgrade post
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=73985.0

Offline drewcrane

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Re: Heads up on new Borgeson steering box
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2014 - 11:39:55 PM »
I thought this was a really nice upgrade  :clueless: :dunno: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Offline brads70

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Re: Heads up on new Borgeson steering box
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2014 - 05:29:55 AM »
I thought this was a really nice upgrade  :clueless: :dunno: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Ya me too  :bricks1:
Brad
1970 Challenger 451stroker/4L60 auto OD
Barrie,Ontario,Canada
Proud to own one of the best cars ever made!!!!!

My restoration thread 
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=59072.0
 My handling upgrade post
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=73985.0

Offline arcticmopar

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Re: Heads up on new Borgeson steering box
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2014 - 01:50:16 PM »
 As far as boring the pitman arm I'm not sure if my local machine shop can machine the splines and still keep the taper? Or are you thinkimg of removeing the taper copmletly? Yes the angle doesnt match up to the sterring colum either...will post a photo later...I'm at work again.
 For me, I have to keep going with my new short block install,after shes up and running I will see what it's like and will get it up on a hoist and just see compared to the oem large spline pitman arm if the drag link is level or what.
 It seems like the best I can do is 2 steps foward and one step backwards. :misbehaving:
RUNS WHITH SISSORS!  and  DIGITALY CHALLENGED!

Offline Cudaragtop

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Re: Heads up on new Borgeson steering box
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2014 - 03:10:42 PM »
Just curious... I know you shouldn't have to and it's not right but.... what if you bored the pitman arm inside diameter say .010" and tried it again?  Or, on the top side of the pitman arm machining/grinding a generous 45 deg angle around the splined area also allowing the arm to go further up the shaft allowing the use of the locknut? What I'm thinking is will this mod allow the arm to go up further on the shaft and allow the use of the locknut?  :dunno:
How is the angle to the steering column when mounted to the k-frame?
One of my concerns with all of this is how does it effect the from end geometry with all these things not where they should be?

After reading this thread I went out to see if I was going to have the same problem with my small sector. I had not tried to tighten the nut yet...
Yup, the nut just got to flush with the end of the shaft. I tried a file on each groove of the pitman arm first  :swear: to slow.
Then I tried a little more aggressive approach with a die grinder stone on the hole of the pitman arm. The stone I used just fit with a little room to spare. Not milled or precision by any means but taking Brad's suggestion in a primitive approach a little at a time and R&R several times to get this result.

I should note that I tried an old original pitman arm and it went on further than the PST fast arm without modification but still not as far as you would want...
The 340 block and stock exhaust manifolds should make clearance less of an issue for me... I hope
The QA1 Tubular K-member should not change any angles.
Won't know about steering shaft angle/clearance until I get the car back form painting and take the time to make the front end swap.
I really prefer driving it to working on it in the summer.

-Randy
- Randy D.
1 of 88 1970 340 4-Speed 'Cuda Convertibles
69 Barracuda Fastback Project Album https://goo.gl/photos/XjsAsx4LDo7psimU8
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Offline arcticmopar

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Re: Heads up on new Borgeson steering box
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2014 - 04:03:19 PM »
After reading this thread I went out to see if I was going to have the same problem with my small sector. I had not tried to tighten the nut yet...
Yup, the nut just got to flush with the end of the shaft. I tried a file on each groove of the pitman arm first  :swear: to slow.
Then I tried a little more aggressive approach with a die grinder stone on the hole of the pitman arm. The stone I used just fit with a little room to spare. Not milled or precision by any means but taking Brad's suggestion in a primitive approach a little at a time and R&R several times to get this result.

I should note that I tried an old original pitman arm and it went on further than the PST fast arm without modification but still not as far as you would want...
The 340 block and stock exhaust manifolds should make clearance less of an issue for me... I hope
The QA1 Tubular K-member should not change any angles.
Won't know about steering shaft angle/clearance until I get the car back form painting and take the time to make the front end swap.
I really prefer driving it to working on it in the summer.

-Randy

 Do you mean you just beveled the edge a bit or did manage to enlarge the diameter of the splines themselves?
RUNS WHITH SISSORS!  and  DIGITALY CHALLENGED!

Offline Cudaragtop

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Re: Heads up on new Borgeson steering box
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2014 - 05:48:30 PM »
Do you mean you just beveled the edge a bit or did manage to enlarge the diameter of the splines themselves?

I did both. I used a stone like the one bottom right. Crude but effective...
 :cheers:

- Randy D.
1 of 88 1970 340 4-Speed 'Cuda Convertibles
69 Barracuda Fastback Project Album https://goo.gl/photos/XjsAsx4LDo7psimU8
----o00o--'(_)'--o00o----

Offline johns cuda shop

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Re: Heads up on new Borgeson steering box
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2014 - 06:15:23 PM »
Bergman Auto Craft advertises their Borgeson Box to be a bolt it.  Looks like they modify each box and test fit them ,but $675 ea . I think I would be looking at a rack at that price.  :bigsmile:
71 Cuda Gen III Aluminum 426 Hemi T56 6 speed 4.10 8.75 Modified & Lowered RMS coilover suspension Wilwood discs

Offline arcticmopar

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Re: Heads up on new Borgeson steering box
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2014 - 07:17:09 PM »
I did both. I used a stone like the one bottom right. Crude but effective...
 :cheers:



 Ok I see, somehow I thought you managed to alter both the ridge's and the trough's of the splines of the pitman arm. Also here is a photo of the angle of the steering colum both before and after the swap.
RUNS WHITH SISSORS!  and  DIGITALY CHALLENGED!

Offline johns cuda shop

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Re: Heads up on new Borgeson steering box
« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2014 - 06:30:23 PM »
Wow! thats way off. I wonder how they can sell them and stay in business...
71 Cuda Gen III Aluminum 426 Hemi T56 6 speed 4.10 8.75 Modified & Lowered RMS coilover suspension Wilwood discs

Offline tman

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Re: Heads up on new Borgeson steering box
« Reply #14 on: May 28, 2014 - 06:44:58 PM »
I can only say thanks for the original poster.  This mod is not for me.