Help in buying decision - 1970 Challenger

[V8Cowboy]

Hi,

at first I guess I should shortly introduce myself, my Name is Kristof, 32, living in Austria. Im infected with the Challenger virus for... well, more than half of my life? But now finally I'd like to make my dream come true.
I have observed the european market for quite some years, at first money, then appropriate Challengers were missing. They are not really that common here Buying a cheap one and restoring it was my initial thought, but unfortunately I don't have the right place, namely a garage or small shop, and I'm not allowed to build one on my own property without suffering a major loss of land due to some stupid laws here. So I abandoned the idea and instead looked for a Challenger in good condition, just getting in and drive it, and somehow for value protection or investment, too.

Well, that's the general set-up. Recently I found a nice 70 Challenger (for me it has to be a 70) located in Germany. I got in contact with the seller and will have a personal look at it in two weeks. But my first euphoria got a bit damped. It is advertised as numbers matching, but if you have a second look, it is definitely not. I know this topic is a hard one because everybody has its own definition. Initially I thought it has to be in the same condition, with the same parts, exterior, interior etc. like from the line, but now I reduced it to drivetrain and body.

Originally it should have been a DY3 creme with green vinyl roof and green interior, probably a reason for eye-cancer.
AND it should be a D13 3-speed-manual.

Now it seems to be FE5 red with black interior and black roof, which I personally think is an improvement (and historically available at that time). Just like the installed 4-speed-manual is. BUT... that's not numbers matching in my eyes. Nevertheless, all the other options, engine etc. as well as the overall look and condition seem right. It's a JS23N0E by the way.

May I ask you for your opinion? If you put yourself in my place, would you buy this one? And if so, what price range would you expect? This would help me to prepare for my visit in two weeks.

Many thanks!
Kristof

[Katfish]

Very nice looking car, I agree the color change is an improvement.  I think you're smart buying/ looking for a car that is complete.
Hard to judge price, the lack of these cars overseas does drive up the price. 

I'll give a guess, of 40-50k, if the underside is as nice as the body in the pics.  This car in the states would probably be $30k?

[dfrazz]

Do you know how many miles?  And is there any proof they are original miles?  How good of shape is the engine?  Recently rebuilt?  If all of this is good and as Katfish said no rust then $30-40 US if the engine and transmission match the VIN.  Rust will drive you in debt quickly, so if there is rust I would negotiate that off the price.  Welcome to C-C from Colorado buy the way.

[BS27R1B]

This car is a 383 RT.
$35,000 tops.
I do not feel the color change hurts it a lot. Sure DY3 would be a low production car. It also had a green interior and side molding but it would not be economically viable to change all that back now.

A decent car to drive and enjoy. And the price is not out of wack considering it is already over there.

Personally I would prefer the lighter front end of a 340 car but then it would nit be an RT in 1970.

[V8Cowboy]

Of course I'd have to bear in mind US Prices + Transportation + customs +etc. I guess that makes a car up to 30% more expensive. AND as you mentioned it, the rarity here.
I don't know the exact miles right now, the ad states 99.999 km, a dummy for unknown commonly. Neither do I know whether the engine has been rebuilt or not, though from outside it seems neat. Maybe the seller has some more information about the history. I will pay special attention to rust once I have a look myself. The transmission definitely can't be matching if it is really a 4-speed.
I got a DMV document from 2005, where it already was red and owned by a A.E. Deflorio, NH. So probably the restoration is 9-10 years old, if the german seller did nothing himself. - To be clarified..

Yes it's a 383, to be honest, that's the engine I can live best with. Hemis are unreachable anyway, 440s too expensive in acquisition and upkeep (I guess you have no idea of insurance, tax an gas prices here ). The seller is asking about 45k$, calculating back to US prices we would be somehwere near the low 30ks.

Here's the fender tag for you to get a better idea of the car and maybe you find anything else out that does not match the pictures, besides color and tranny.

V1F V5F Y14 26 END
M91 N41 N42 N85 R11
G34 H51 J25 J45 J54 M21
V1F A04 A62 B51 C16 C55
DY3 H6F8 000 126 ....
E63 D13 JS23 N0E ....

[dfrazz]

calculating back to US prices we would be somehwere near the low 30ks.

I think it is inline with what most of us are saying and worth pursuing, so go check it out and keep us up to date.   

[rUNCHARGER]

Nice car, 4 speed, A/C it looks to be reasonable if it's in nice shape and you'll save a bunch in transportation costs.

Sheldon

[ragtopdodge]

I think that's a cool car.

An R/T with a 3-speed, but loaded with AC (expensive option) and luggage rack!


If this thing is rust free, and body work looks excellent (bring a magnet to check for tons of bondo), can't go wrong for how rare these are in Europe.

I think the color change does not hurt the value whatsoever.  Just too bad the body side moulding was left in.  Think 60-70% of Challengers then had that option.

[dutch]

rare in europe, yes, for sure... but the cars for sale don`t sell, so I`d try to beat him down on the price   
good luck,  that`s a nice looking car   

[V8Cowboy]

Hi and thanks for the replies so far.

Meanwhile I could find some, partly disturbing, information about this car on the net. I don't know the background of this info, but I'm on it. It seems like the dealer is already trying to sell it for a couple of years without success. Maybe because of the price, which has dropped severely during that time. The most disturbing thing is the rumor, that it had an accident. Don't know the truth content though.

Anyway flight is booked, so I will definitely have a look at it, AND be alert to indicators...

[dfrazz]

It seems like the dealer is already trying to sell it for a couple of years without success. Maybe because of the price, which has dropped severely during that time. The most disturbing thing is the rumor, that it had an accident. Don't know the truth content though.

Couple of years to sell and it is still not sold?   

That seems to be more than just price.  Be careful on this one, you don't want to get stuck with a BIG problem and remember there is ALWAYS another car.

[ragtopdodge]

If it had an accident, look everywhere!  Frame rails, etc.  If it STILL looks good, then maybe take it to a frame shop and have everything measured.

[dutch]

congrats with your purchase     all things considered, I`d say you got yourself a pretty cool car 

[V8Cowboy]

Hi,

Thank you! i still cant believe it. I sent the contract back only today in the morning, so it is still somehow unrealistic for me. I guess I have to sleep a few nights more to totally get it.

For all of you who participated in this thread, I will soon write a summary of what happened. But for now it is BBQ time and....
Whooohoo I got my Chally!!

[Katfish]

Congrats, interested to hear the details.